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.223 Wylde or 5.56?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Brandon B, Feb 9, 2018.

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  1. Brandon B

    Brandon B Member

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    I’m wondering if I should go .223 Wylde or 5.56x.45 on this next upcoming build. I’ve got about 5k rounds of 5.56, but also around 8-9k of .223. All of my ARs have 5.56 barrels in them so I’m safe to shoot 223. But I’m really interested in this cold hammer forged chrome lined barrel in .223 Wylde. Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m a 5.56 barrel you can shoot .223, in a .223 barrel you don’t want to shoot 5.56 because of pressure, but in a .223 Wylde barrel you can shoot both. And also they are somewhat more accurate (somewhere within like a .04 parameter so big whoop).
    But it looks like an awesome barrel and it’s also fluted. Any downsides to .223 Wylde? Should I stick with another 5.56 barrel or what? I’ll be using this rifle anywhere from 200 to 1000 yds. Thanks ahead of time for your input
     
  2. Everready73

    Everready73 Member

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    223 Wylde can shoot both 223 and 556. If everything else with the barrel is good the wylde chamber could help a little with accuracy. It's not a miracle chamber or anything compared to 556 or 223. A high quality 556 barrel could easily outshoot a cheap 223 wylde
     
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  3. Everready73

    Everready73 Member

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    What barrel are you considering?
     
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  4. Brandon B

    Brandon B Member

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    It is a 16 inch fluted cold hammer forged barrel
    From alpha shooting sports
     
  5. Everready73

    Everready73 Member

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    Not familiar with them. I would look into Faxon match series, ballistic advantage, Larue stealth, and white oak. They all have options in about that price range . They are proven to be good shooters
     
  6. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

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    Why only a 16" barrel? 1,000 yards is long ways. Even 200 yards is a fair distance. I would personally go with at least a 20" barrel and use a heavy bullet. The .223 Wylde chamber might offer you a better selection of bullet weight and style to choose from.
     
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  7. Brandon B

    Brandon B Member

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    Well I have two spare stripped lowers that I’m going to be building out. I want to make a more tactical style 16 inch, and a long distance shooting 18-20 inch. Would putting a .223 wylde on a 16 inch be pointless?
    Based on what you said I’m for sure going to go with 223 wylde on my longer target gun. But what are your thoughts on putting it on a 16 inch?
     
  8. HJ857

    HJ857 Member

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    Just to throw in two cents worth. My feeling is that an AR should be built purpose specific. So if you're thinking of building a tactical, or fighting, AR, then make it light and reliable. Accuracy is not a primary concern. For that a 5.56 chamber is going to be somewhat more forgiving of ANY ammo you put in it.

    When you say defensive/tactical/fighting rifle, then reliability becomes the primary concern. Being able to chamber, fire and eject whatever POS round you find laying on the ground is a good thing. You probably will never need that capability, but then again, that's why you have a different AR for recreational use.

    I have an AR with a Wylde chamber and no mistake, it is fussier about what I put in it compared to my fighting AR.

    Regarding the precision AR, go with the longer barrel, it does make a difference downrange. Absolutely the Wylde chamber is the best option. But, a Wylde chamber is not a guarantee for accuracy. You still need that chamber to be in a top notch barrel.
     
  9. IndianaBoy

    IndianaBoy Member

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    223 Wylde is a good choice. If it is a good quality barrel, it will be every bit as reliable as 5.56, and should be capable of better accuracy, all else being equal.

    As for 1000 yards, I know it is a nice round number, but even with a 24 inch barrel you aren't going to get a 223/5.56 to stay supersonic beyond roughly 800 yards. When a bullet goes transonic it will destabilize, and at that point accuracy goes completely out the window.

    A 20 inch barrel with either a 1-7 or 1-8 twist, and a good optic + good ammo will get you to 600-800, and you can use it to learn wind, which is the toughest part by far of shooting at distances beyond a quarter mile.


    It really takes an entire system to shoot at a half mile or more. A very good barrel. A very good optic that will dial precisely or that has a reticle that allows enough elevation and windage to make proper holds. Match grade ammo (generally 69, 73 or 75 grain bullets in 223). The rifle needs to be properly built, and of course a good trigger helps.

    Not trying to dissuade you, but just make you aware of the realities of the 223 cartridge. I actually just finished a precision rig in 223 Wylde. There are options that would have gotten me beyond 1k in a small frame AR, but I chose not to go that route because of cost/benefit.

    I figured I would be better served by practicing more at 500-800 yards than by having a cartridge that I could only shoot half as much that would in theory get me to 1300.
     
  10. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

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    This really isn't all that complicated. If you look at the actual chamber drawings a 223 wylde is slightly larger in every dimension than the 223 and. 5.56, except for the base to shoulder dimension is a bit tighter. A 223 wylde is basically just a 5.56 with a shallower throat angle to help align the bullet in the rifling.

    I would not be afraid to use a wylde in anything. Remember that every barrel has a human factor in it, in that a person had to put the barrel in a lathe and ream a chamber into it. Humans are not perfect and neither are tools so chambers can be cut off center, reamers can wobble and chatter, and they can be cut too deep or too shallow. The barrel maker is just as important.
     
  11. Browning

    Browning Member

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    One of the AR's that I have is in .223 Wylde (1/8) and that one beats out the several other 5.56's that I have in terms of accuracy.

    This is 100 yards the very first time I took it out. Just iron sights too.

    26979007533_da7609eb0e_o.jpg

    27553743066_10303c43bd_o.jpg 27817292252_4b0e1907c3_o.jpg

    Might be a little of everything since it's a NM, but then again all the others are using scopes.

    -----------

    One thing that no one has mentioned in shooting a .223 at longer ranges is the wind. Maybe it's just here in Texas but I regularly shoot at a 600 yard range and 'even just at' at 600 the wind can blow it several feet off target one way or the other depending on what load you're using, grain weight, twist rate, how fast the wind is blowing and from what angle and so on.

    If you're regularly going past that you might want to choose a different caliber unless you're going with some really well crafted super heavy grain bullets* or something.

    Edit : *The army marksmanship unit came up with 90 gr bullets for long range in a .223 that had to be single loaded.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
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  12. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

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    Even with the best heavy 223 bullets the wind drift will be a factor of feet past 600 with any decent crosswind. They are really out if there element past that range in my opinion.
     
  13. IndianaBoy

    IndianaBoy Member

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    44.4 inches or 2.1 MRAD with my 75gr handload and a 10mph crosswind.

    Easy enough to correct for with a proper scope reticle, but knowing the wind and the dope for your rifle/ammo is crucial or you are just wasting ammo.

    A wind meter is essential if you are trying to hit targets at long range in the wind. Flags help too.
     
  14. boom boom
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    boom boom Contributing Member

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    As other posters have noted above, a 5.56 or a .223 Wylde is not the best choice for a 1000 yard rifle. The 5.56 and .223 were never designed as 1000 yard cartridges so they will be suboptimal compared with others cartridges designed for that task regardless of how fine your equipment is.

    If you do a THR search, there are some experts (certainly not me) here that routinely shoot accurately at those distances and those threads are pretty common. It requires much more than just a barrel, cartridge, or even chambering. Reading wind, determining the most accurate load for your particular rifle (e.g. reloading) or using very expensive match ammunition, good glass, being able to read distance, etc. and proper training. Instead of asking what chambering you should get, if you are interested in long range shooting, then ask them for advice about how to go about doing it. The folks at THR are great about helping if you ask.
     
  15. Everready73

    Everready73 Member

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    Agree with so the above post s about 223/556 not being a reliable 1k yard round. I don't really shoot mine past 600. Mostly 300 in. For the spr type rifle you want to build consider 6.5 grendal or the new 224 valkayre(sp) . The ballistics look really good on the 224 and you can use ar15 receivers for either caliber.

    I would like to see some additional testing with various barrel lengths with the 224, but it looks very promising and has a lot of support from the industry already. PSA is already selling the complete uppers. I would go with 20''-24'' barrel though. Will definitely get you to 1k
     
  16. HJ857

    HJ857 Member

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    The Hornady 75 grain ELD-M with a MV of 3000 at 750 above sea level is travelling 1320 fps at 1000 yards out of a 20" barrel. Easily supersonic. People are doing it every day, it's not rocket science.

    Wind isn't rocket science either. Arcane magic maybe.
     
  17. IndianaBoy

    IndianaBoy Member

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    75 ELD won't feed out of a magazine. If you want to single load more power to you. If I am shooting an AR I want semi-auto. Nothing wrong with single load or straight pull, just not for me.
     
  18. IndianaBoy

    IndianaBoy Member

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    You ain't gonna get 3000 FPS out of a 20" barrel with a 223, not with a 75gr bullet. Not at a safe pressure.
     
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  19. ms6852

    ms6852 Member

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    I use Hornady BTHP 75 grain bullets all the time either for hunting or plinking. Six hundred yards is a piece of cake. My RRA has a 20” barrel and as IndianaBoy has indicated you will not get 3000 FPS out of a 20” barrel. A muzzle velocity of at least 2700 FPS happens to be about max loads with most powders and at that velocity you can remain supersonic to about 850 to 900 yards.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  20. LocoGringo

    LocoGringo Member

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    Now that the 1000 yard thing for .223/5.56 has been beaten to death, I’ll talk about my experience with my Wyldes. I’ve got 2 of them and they are 18” barrels with rifle length gas systems. One has 5R rifling and the other has 3R rifling and they are both made by the same manufacturer. I have not had a single hiccup in the several thousands of rounds I have shot in many 3-gun competitions that I use them for. I’ve stuck with plain 55 grain ball ammo, but I’ve shot several brands of match ammo ranging from 69 grain to 75 grain and the barrels/rifles have proven to be solid performers. I’ve hit steel targets out to 500 yards on the clock and have been pleasantly surprised.

    Now, is it because I have a Wylde chamber or is it because my rifles are purpose built or is it because of luck, or what? It’s a huge combination of factors, but one primary factor is I chose a really good barrel maker after I did my homework. Good luck with your new build.
     
  21. HJ857

    HJ857 Member

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    safe pressure for a .223 or a 5.56?
     
  22. IndianaBoy

    IndianaBoy Member

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    Either.

    Western Powders (Accurate, Ramshot) has load data for 5.56 pressure. With a 24 inch barrel (and presumably a bolt action) they were barely getting to that 3k mark.

    You won't get there with a 20" barrel, and you will lose more velocity still in a gas gun. And the 75gr ELD won't fit into an AR-15 magazine anyway.

    I just worked up a load with the 75gr HPBT out of a 20" AR. I'm looking for accuracy first, low standard deviation second, and velocity third, but of course I want all the velocity I can get. 2748 FPS is looking like the sweet spot with this powder.


    In my experience, running loads over a chrono will often give slower results than what is published in any reloading manual. A lot of those rely on 24" barrels when testing their ammo it seems. My only exception to that was a 220 Swift that I recently sold to a buddy. That thing was a screamer. 50gr Vmax chronoed 4064FPS at almost a full grain under max load of H-380.



    I would love to be wrong, because I would love to hit 3000 FPS with a 75gr out of this rifle. :) I don't think you could stuff enough powder in a 223 case to get it done.

    CRielsk.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
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  23. IndianaBoy

    IndianaBoy Member

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    Back to the original poster's question.

    The 223 Wylde is a pretty optimum choice for accuracy while still retaining perfect reliability in my experience. I can't remember the last time I had a rifle malfunction with one of my ARs that wasn't caused by a bad magazine. I shoot Wolf out of some of my guns as well as good brass cased ammo, and the 223 Wylde chambers do just fine.
     
  24. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

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    I would actually like to see more bolt action come in 223 wylde. A longer throat is really nice for having room to load 75's and not have to cram half the bullet in the case. Its a moot point in an AR since the magazines are so short but a long throat in a bolt gun gives some extra options to the handloader.
     
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  25. HJ857

    HJ857 Member

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    Cool. I always thought that upper I have is pretty magical. Now I know it's actually true.
     
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