.22lr MEGATHREAD

[jcwit]

Actually it applies both ways.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I'm an FFL, and I haven't seen any quantity of 22lr (Federal, Remington, CCI, Winchester, Aquila ...) at the wholesale/distributor level in two YEARS. All I ever see is this "off brand" match ammo ... and not much of that.

Where are the multi-millions of rounds they say they are producing DAILY going?

They're going here:

To bigger dealers then you.

And from there, they are going here:

To many millions of shooters and gun owners.

There are tens of thousands of retail outlets for ammunition in this country. Walmart along accounts for almost 5,000 retail outlets in the United States. Add in all the other major retailers, then start adding in all the gun shops and small time dealers. Then toss in the internet retailers on top of that.

According to several news stories, there are over 50,000 retail gun stores in the U.S. and nearly 130,000 licensed dealers total.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/08/guns-in-america-a-statistical-look/

Domestic production of .22 LR has often been cited at 4.5 billion annually. Divided up among all those outlets means some will get .22 LR more easily than others...and the public is out there snatching it up wherever they can find it, whenever they can find it.

Let's assume, for the sake of simplicity, that we're talking about an even 50,000 retailers who sell ammunition. That would be on the low end, but good enough for a conservative set of calculations.

4.5 billion rounds is equal to 9 million bricks of 500. 9 million bricks divided equally among 50,000 dealers is 180 bricks annually per dealer. Now assume that an overnight public run on .22 LR has depleted the stocks of .22 LR for virtually every one of these retail outlets and the demand for .22 LR remains high afterwards.

Get the picture? And that's assuming it's ONLY 50,000 businesses which sell ammunition. The number is likely higher.

This isn't rocket science...and we don't need Dylan Avery style conspiracy theories about the shortage. There's nothing mystical, magical, or nefarious about it. Supply and demand.

 

[jcwit]

I understand where you're coming from Chief and almost agree with you.

But after seeing this carry on for years I'm beginning to doubt it, and think it is a bigger issue. But hey, that's me.

Didn't take this long to resupply bath tissue during the Johnny Carson fiasco. LOL

They can even supply the market with the latest I Phone when it comes out.

Lets hope they never have a run on ketchup.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I understand where you're coming from Chief and almost agree with you.

But after seeing this carry on for years I'm beginning to doubt it, and think it is a bigger issue. But hey, that's me.

Didn't take this long to resupply bath tissue during the Johnny Carson fiasco. LOL

They can even supply the market with the latest I Phone when it comes out.

Lets hope they never have a run on ketchup.

Heh! But the latest iPhone isn't a consumable on the same order as .22 LR ammo.

And bath tissue has suitable substitutes, too! And people can only stock so much bath tissue before they start running out of room and start asking themselves "what the f*** am I doing?"




I freely admit that I buy .22 LR whenever I happen to see it available at "normal" retail prices, and I buy my limit. Every time. I don't buy it from gun shops where it's priced twice that of the big store retail prices because I don't need to. And I don't buy it from auction sites or any other place where the prices are sky-high. Right now my family is in a shooting lull, so this means I'm increasing my stock, which is currently at about 8,000 and growing.

LOTS of people are doing this, and this is the "demand" part of "supply and demand".

When the demand goes back down, stocks will replenish, and those that are flipping will quit flipping.

It's happening now. .22 LR is easier to find now than it was two years ago. It's just a slow process.

 

[Warp]

They can even supply the market with the latest I Phone when it comes out.

No way! "They" can supply a hundreds-of-dollars purchase price item that people often buy one of every 2 years or so.

That must be insanely difficult, how do they do it?!

 

[jcwit]

No way! "They" can supply a hundreds-of-dollars purchase price item that people often buy one of every 2 years or so.

That must be insanely difficult, how do they do it?!

Right, and "they" that is the manufacturer folks, can't even supply an item that the designing is already done, machinery all ready in place to make, materials already to go, and this goes on for years. Not sure how difficult, but yes this whole shortage is INSANE.

No matter the cause.

 

[jcwit]

I freely admit that I buy .22 LR whenever I happen to see it available at "normal" retail prices, and I buy my limit. Every time. I don't buy it from gun shops where it's priced twice that of the big store retail prices because I don't need to. And I don't buy it from auction sites or any other place where the prices are sky-high. Right now my family is in a shooting lull, so this means I'm increasing my stock, which is currently at about 8,000 and growing.

LOTS of people are doing this, and this is the "demand" part of "supply and demand".

When the demand goes back down, stocks will replenish, and those that are flipping will quit flipping.

It's happening now. .22 LR is easier to find now than it was two years ago. It's just a slow process.

Frankly I haven't purchased any .22 rimfire ammo in 10 + years other than Match ammo in the $150 a brick range.

Still have plenty of standard, low priced ammo, somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 to 40 thousand rounds. All purchased year ago long before we ever heard of zero. Most cost 6 to 8 dollars a brick, much was purchased by the case.

I still contend its more than JUST supply & demand.

 

[Warp]

Right, and "they" that is the manufacturer folks, can't even supply an item that the designing is already done, machinery all ready in place to make, materials already to go, and this goes on for years. Not sure how difficult, but yes this whole shortage is INSANE.

No matter the cause.

Tell people to stop buying ammo.

Or, since rimfire production in the millions-billions of rounds is just that easy, convince some investors to back you as you open your own plant and roll in the $$$. Just don't charge $800/item like an iPhone and expect to be profitable.

 

[jcwit]

Or, since rimfire production in the millions-billions of rounds is just that easy, convince some investors to back you as you open your own plant and roll in the $$$. Just don't charge $800/item like an iPhone and expect to be profitable.

I retired at 58, I'm now in my 70's, I ain't starting anything. Period.

Frankly, I'm happy/satisfied with the $$$$$$ I now have.

 

[Confederate]

They're Rugers...Would You Like To See One?

My brother was in a Utah gun store looking at the array of guns. He noticed two blued Ruger 22LR auto pistols on the shelves, one significantly more expensive than the other. He asked what the difference was between the two, and the guys behind the counter didn't have a clue. My brother turned to go and one of the clerks called after him, "They're Rugers. Would you like to see one?"

"Do you have any ammo for them," my brother asked.

"No, we haven't had any for some time," the clerk replied.

My brother, amused by the fact that they were trying to sell him a gun that no one in town had any ammo for, just smiled at him and shook his head. "What's the point?"

No one has any here, either, in the East.

Anyone know what's causing this ammo shortage? And is it likely to ease up? My brother said he was told at a Wal-Mart that the same people show up when ammo shipments come in and they buy it up. No one knows whether they're re-selling it or just stocking it. I bought up a bunch of it before it disappeared off the shelves, and so I'm set. But I hesitate to shoot it if I can't replace it.

 

[mgmorden]

Meh - just check Walmart whenever you go in and you'll score some here and there.

I visit a Walmart maybe once every other week (I do my grocery shopping elsewhere), but I check the ammo counter every single time. In the last 2 years or so I've found .22 in stock about 7 or 8 times - about 3 of those times I found large bricks. Actually found some in there at midday last week.

Gun stores in town pretty much all have .22LR in stock. You're going to pay 3x what it would cost at Walmart but they all have some if you need it.

 

[Lord Teapot]

gunbot shows armscor at $48/500 rounds of .22lr

 

[TexAg]

I just paid $40 for 555 at the FW gun show....late on a Saturday too.

 

[sigarms228]

Plenty of .22LR ammo in these parts as long as you are willing to pay 12 cents a round. Glad I bought a boatload in late 2012 after I got the .22LR conversion kit for my SIG P226.

 

[ROAshooter]

just scored 3000 rounds of Winchester M-22, for $49. +tax per 1000 at Walmart last week. Just gotta get up early...I MEAN early...and be first in line when the mgr opens the gun/sports counter. walmart policy is three boxes per customer in our area.
Four ..thousand round boxes came in , we got three, the second in line got the last.

 

[Confederate]

Yeah, but does anyone know why? Was it in fear of the Obama administration doing something? And what's driving the continuing problem, greed? Is production down? Will a Republican in the White House change things or is this going to keep feeding on itself?

Why don't some of these companies increase production or outside companies begin production? Clearly there's a market for rimfire ammo. The prices of centerfire ammo are up, but at least you can get it. I'd hate to see this continue, as I suspect the people making most of the profit are the middle men who are jacking up prices. I've always felt that if more people could be persuaded to use .22WMR, that the prices of that ammo would drop and we'd end up with a better round to shoot. Things are so bad now that I'm buying WMR ammo for my Ruger Single-Six.

 

[ozarkhillbilly]

Why? Millions of new gun sold and a couple million new shooters in the last few years. The ammo is being sold as fast as they can make it. It takes years to open new factories, equipment, trained staff all cost millions.

 

[ritepath]

I've found it easier to buy fishing equipment than 22 ammo. So for now my 8 22's just sit in the safe, I can reload and shoot 9mm cheaper. If only I had 4 9mm rifles like I have 22's.

I'd have no problems buying a non poly MKII right now if they lower the prices down to 250 bucks, I do have around 12k rounds left over from the first 2009 BHO scare.

Since the last Sandy scare I've maybe bought 3 or 4k here and there, my last back at Christmas when everyone was buying gifts and didn't have the cash to spend I suppose.

 

[jmr40]

Why don't some of these companies increase production or outside companies begin production? Clearly there's a market for rimfire ammo.

Because it will take years and millions of dollars in investment to build factories, buy machinery, and hire employees. And as soon as everyone gets a decent supply there will be no demand and all of those factories and workers won't be needed.

There is no greater demand for people to actually shoot 22 now than in the past. In fact less 22 being shot now than in the past. People are just buying it and putting it back. Shooters who used to buy a 100 round box of 22's per year are now buying up thousands of rounds, but not shooting it. It is just a matter of time before this craziness stops and when it does manufacturers may not need to make any 22's for another decade. They know that and sure aren't going to invest the money in machines that will be rusting in a few years.

FWIW, I'm no longer having any trouble finding quality target grade 22's. It ain't as cheap as the bulk stuff, but it is selling at fair prices for the quality. I'd rather buy the good stuff anyway.

I do have around 12k rounds left over from the first 2009 BHO scare.

This is the reason no 22's are out there. Multiply this by tens of thousands of others.

 

[Plan2Live]

Oh my, another "where is all the .22/same guys show up at Walmart every day and buy it all up" thread. Bangs head against hard object......

Yes it's true, Elvis, Jimmy Hoffa, Michael Jackson and DB Cooper all show up at midnight, slip the night manager a $20, buy up all the .22 and sell it at the local flea market for three times what they paid for it. And somehow they manage to do this every day at every Walmart in the Country. They must be using the government's secret tunnel system connecting all the Walmarts. It's the only way they can support their incognito lifestyle.

 

[bannockburn]

Currently I can find some at the LGS, priced about the same as before the Great Drought. Haven't really needed any as I'm still pretty well set from before all the panic buying/horading occurred.

 

[MedWheeler]

Jeez.. another .22LR shortage thread, but cleverly disguised as one about Rugers..

 

[Richard Head]

If you look hard you can find 22lr ammo, but the days of readily available and cheap 22lr are long gone never to return. You can thank the preppers, hoarders and dirtbag resellers.

 

[ku4hx]

If you look hard you can find 22lr ammo, but the days of readily available and cheap 22lr are long gone never to return. You can thank the preppers, hoarders and dirtbag resellers.

You don't really have to look all that hard, especially with websites like AmmoSeek.com. Around here, .22 Long Rifle stuff is available; not plentiful but better than it was.

As far as buying guns for which there is no ammunition, I've done that for many years. Sooner or later I'll buy the dies and scrounge up some usable brass. For those of us that roll our own, and do a bit of casting to boot, there are very few guns for which there is just no ammunition.

Shortage? What shortage?

 

[Arkansas Paul]

the days of readily available and cheap 22lr are long gone never to return.

Hide and watch.
Since the panic, I've bought .22 ammo for $2.19 a box. It's not as readily available now as it has been, but it will be eventually.

Read jmr40's post. It is spot on. If there was a long term market for mass quantities of .22 lr the companies would bite the bullet and hire more people/buy more equipment.
They haven't done that because they know in a couple of years it won't be an issue.

They're in business to make money. If the money was there long term, they would make the investment.