2400 data for 170g cast in .357mag

[bunnielab]

Like the title says, I am looking for data.

I have finally gotten my hands on some Keith 170g SWCs and now I want to make some satisfyingly loud "booms". Problem being I cant find any real data.

The Lee book list charges of Min:11.1 and Max:12.1 for jacketed bullets but there is no data for cast.

Lee lists data for cast 158g bullets as Min:14.1 an Max:15.2. The "average" bulk cast 158g bullet sticks into the case ~.399 while the 170g only take up ~.356. I am unsure what the relative effect of this is compared to the weight difference.

I know that back in the good old days charges of ~14-15g of 2400 were used with these bullets but I would love to have something more concrete to go with.

Thanks.

 

[Sunray]

"...The Lee book list..." Isn't their own data either. They get their data from the powder maker's, I think. They test nothing themselves.
"...~14-15g of 2400..." Those are max loads for any bullet. My 45th Edition Lyman(30 some years old) manual gives 13.0 as the max load with a 168 grain cast bullet.
My Lyman Pistol & Revolver Handbook(newer) gives 9.7(879 fps) to 13.5(1242 fps) for a 168 grain cast bullet. Lyman mold #358429. It is a Keith bullet. 1.553" OAL. Two grains won't matter.
There's one 170 grain LSWC(Lyman mold #358429 too) using 9.0 of Blue Dot on Handloads.com. Guy says it's a med. range load he uses in a 6" 586 and a Coonan. 9.4 is the max load for a jacketed 170 according to Alliant.
Wouldn't count on a loud boom with a cast bullet though.

 

[rcmodel]

If you load cast bullets, you need to buy a Lyman #49 reloading manual.

It shows data for the 170 Keith #358429 with 9 different powders.
2400 powder:
Start is 9.7 grains = 879 FPS - 15,900 CUP.
MAX is 13.5 grains = 1,242 FPS - 41,100 CUP.

Don't even bother with the 9.7 start load, as you will not get clean burning with 2400 until you get the pressure up.
Was it me, I'd probably start with 12.0 grains and work up from there.

Two things have happened since Elmer shot 14.5 grains 2400 with that bullet.
1. SAAMI dropped the max pressure limit for the .357 Mag some years ago.
2. Some speculate todays Alliant 2400 is a little faster burning then the Hercules 2400 Elmer used 50 years ago.

rc

 

[GP100man]

My lee autodisc , disc 1.02 (I think) drops 13.2 grs. of 2400 it`ll push the 358429 1100 fps , I would consider recoil & muzzle report in the upper med range .

Much lower & I get kernals of unburnt stuff!

 

[USSR]

As previously stated, 13.5gr of 2400 is the Max load for the 170gr 358429 Keith bullet, and is the load I regularly use.

Don

 

[Quantrill]

The "Keith" SWC bullet varies (in the Lyman manuals), any where from 168 to 173 gr. In his book, "Sixguns", Keith refers to that bullet as 173gr. He also refers to the same bullet in a hollow point configuration as the "Keith Lyman" bullet. He lists the 160gr. bullet as being .001 over groove dia. The loads he recomends (and here, I say to you all, these are Keith's loads from his book and I have never used them and I would be durned careful in working up these loads) 14.5 gr of 2400 for the 173gr bullet and 15 for the 160gr hollowpoint. "SIXGUNS pg243. He says he shot these loads from a S&W revolver.

 

[kelbro]

Try 10.3 gr of 2400 behind a softer alloy (50% WW/50% Pb) in the 358429. Very accurate in three of my 357s. 2", 4", and 6" barrels.

 

[Bula]

GP100 man and I load the same 13.2g of 2400, homecast 358429. I was kinda figuring 1200'ish fps. Not that 1100 fps of 170gr of cast lead is anything to sneeze at-or that anyone but me would notice the 100fps diff... Is this actual chrono data GP100man Barrel length and firearm? I shoot that load from a 4" GP100 and a 6" 686, both love it. Great shooting load.

 

[fecmech]

Out of my 6" gp 100 13.5/2400/173 "Keith" is 1254 fps, out of my 24" Rossi lever gun the same load is 1633 fps.

PS: as to old and new 2400 my experience is that it's the same. This past year I came into some 2400 from a hoarder who past away from the 50's 60's 70's and 80's. The stuff from the 50's while it smelled fine had lost it's zip and was about 150 fps slower than current Alliant 2400. The Hercules stuff from the 60's and onward chrono'd very close to new Alliant 2400, no more than what I've seen over the years in lot to lot variations.