25-06 vs 7mm-08

[Lost_Cowboy]

I am lookin fer a 200-500 yrd paper, varmit and deer gun. I talked to an ol' timer and he said the 7-08 was a better long range gun, but everthin' else I am hearin is say the 25-06 is the way to go for this. Any thoughts and pointers would be great thanks guys.

 

[Dthunter]

Either will do fine.
I have used both extensively on many different spiecies.
I use the 120 gr. Nosler Partition or the Berger 115 gr.VLD. In my 25-06's.
140 Berger VLD, and 154grain Hornady interlok in my 7-08.

Just get the rifle you like the most. You will never notice the difference in the cartridge abilties on game.

The only advantage one has over the other, is that there are better bullets(choice wise) in the 7-08.

 

[mljdeckard]

Do you have any preference for long action over short action, or vice-versa?

 

[Lost_Cowboy]

They are both the Savage Axis and so far Iam likin the 25-06.

 

[Lost_Cowboy]

Don't really care on the actions. I have found a few rounds that I like in the 25-06 and I think I saw on choise your Rilfe or what ever that show is called, that one used it and it worked well for him at long ranges.

 

[RPRNY]

It's kind of funny, this is like the 30-06 vs 308 debate but in reverse.

25-06 based on 30-06 necked down. Will send 120 gr bullets downrange as flat screamers at 3,000 fps. Great for exploding varmints or long range deer, not so great for 100 yard deer where that velocity will want very careful bullet selection not to shatter on a shoulder.

7mm-08 based on a necked down 308. Funnily enough, because of bullet diameter, ballistic coefficients and sectional densities, this round will do better with heavier bullets, albeit at more moderate velocities - think 150gr at 2700 fps. I like the 6.5 and 7mm round category a lot as a hunting round. Barring the Bench Rest burners (6.5-284 etc.) these are killing rounds. They send out high sectional density rounds at speeds that are effective, give flat trajectories, and yield high penetration.

Paper: Either one will be great. 25-06 probably a little cheaper if you don't reload.
Varmints: 25-06 - vaporizing prairie dogs at 300 yards has high value
Deer: 7mm-08 - great killing round at short and long distance and less picky about bullet choices.

This is admittedly slightly Jesuitical. Fact is, they are both great and you will be happy with either one.

 

[1948CJ2A]

Because of the increased cartridge capacity and smaller bore, the 25-06 shoots flatter and faster than the 7-08. I'd opt for the 25-06.

 

[627PCFan]

The 25-06 has lighter bullets that get out there pretty good, but not real hot BC's. The 7mm has some of the highest BC's out there but your chunkin a big peice of copper out there thats going to go on down range after the hit or miss. Take a look at 22-250 or 220 Swift for those kinds of ranges?

 

[1948CJ2A]

The 7mm has some of the highest BC's...

If you want the BC of a 7mm and long range, pick up any 7mm Magnum (The Rem Mag likely being the most common).

 

[Georgia Gunner]

I say go with 25-06. It is my favorite rifle round and use it on everything from foxes,coyotes, and deer to paper and what ever else I feel like shooting at longer ranges. You just need to use the right bullet for what you are doing. For deer I use 120 grain Remington core-lokt and have great results. Ive shot deer from 20 to over 100 yards with that load and the farthest I have had one go is about twenty yards. The rest dropped right there.

 

[BP Hunter]

I recently purchased a Ruger Hawkeye M77 in 25-06. After sighting it in with 10 rounds, I consistently shot water bottle targets at 200 yards easily. I used the Hornady 117 gr. BTSP. The recoil is much friendlier with the other deer ammo, very simialr to 30-30.

 

[Kachok]

Out to 400yd I like flat shooters, past 400 though and it is all about BC because everything drops like a rock after 400 yards, at 500yd w/200yd zero even the fastest and flattests big game guns on the planet drop about 2 feet!! If you have to adjust for drop anyway at leased minimize wind drift that is the way I see it.
The 7-08 is not known for great performance with the 7mm ultra heavy VLD bullets, it's best performers are the 140-150gr deer hammers it is so well known for, also it is less likely to make a bunch of deer jello since it's killing energy depends less on impact speed and more on "textbook" performance.
Solid efficient killer in a compact package, you cannot find anything bad to say about that.
The 25-06 exists in two different forms, one is the factory form, which is plenty adequate but in reality is simply a managed recoil 270 win, they throw bullets of near identical SD and BC at near identical speeds, the only real advantage the 25-06 has is reduced recoil. The other side of that coin is the 25-06 that the performance handloaders have come to love, it outperforms the 270 by 150-300 fps in every bullet class, some people have even pushed speeds exceeding the 257 Wby factory loads!! As with all uber high speed calibers please use quality controlled expansion bullets, anything else is likely to rupture and under penetrate deer sized game.

 

[Samari Jack]

Might be a bit off topic but one of the reasons I quit deer hunting with a Ruger 25-06 was it was so loud. I hated trying to shoot it without hearing protection but couldn't hunt from a deer stand with hearing protection.

If it were me and I had the bucks, I'd get a dedicated varmint & seperate deer rifle suitable for your locale. In the woods, I still use my Marlin .35 lever gun.

 

[Kachok]

Yeah the 25-06 and all heavily overbore cartrages are very loud especially in short barrels. Anyone that wants a mild mannered deer gun should check out a modern 6.5x55, very low noise, almost no barrel wear, next to nothing recoil, low pressures and yet it puts them down quickly one shot every time. I load mine with 120gr ballistic tips at about 2900fps and while the blood trail is enough for a blind man to follow I never need it because none have made it more then a few feet. My all time favorite hands down
7-08 is also pretty mild, not as much so as the ol Sweed but it is close, plus it works in a short action if you are into that featherweight thing.

 

[jmr40]

I'm not real familiar with either round, but running some numbers through a ballistics calculator the 7-08 wins with both flatter trajectory, heavier bullets and more energy down range.

A 25-06 shooting 117 Hornady SST's @2990 fps it will be 50 " low @ 500 yards with 937 ft lbs energy.

The 7-08 shooting 120 gr Nosler BT's @3050 will be 46" low @500 yards with 1074 ft lbs energy.

I don't have a dog in this fight and just ran the numbers because I was curious.

The velocity numbers I got from this website. http://gundata.org/ballistic-calculator/?gclid=CPCPlrSfg7ACFQcFnQodc1imjg I'm not really surprised that they show more velocity for the 7-08. Shorter cases tend to be more efficient and it is almost always possible to shoot equal bullet weights faster through a larger bore.

 

[Kachok]

jmr40 that is because you are comparing bullets of wildly different SD. While a 120gr .284 cal can be used for deer the 140s are the starting point for most hunters, just like the 100gr for the .257 can be used for deer but many quarter bore experts opt for 115-120gr. I can load my 30-06 with 120gr bullets and blow them both completely out of the water (3400fps!) but again the difference in SD is the catch.
If we compare lightweights for each you have. (all speeds are aprox and vary by manufacturer)
25-06 100gr at 3190fps
7-08 120gr at 3000fps
Or with standard weights
25-06 115gr at 2950fps
7-08 140gr at 2860fps
That is why the 25-06 is considered the flatter shooting of the two, though you are correct about the downrange energy, .284>.257 in that department for sure.

 

[Longrifle2506]

Your instinct is leading correctly. Get the 25-06; It's the ultimate, and it's super flat shooting with 85 grain bullets, and 100 grain bullets are nice too. I don't use anything heavier. Not yet anyway. Actually, shooting 85 grain bullets; it's only a tad slower than a 22-250(55 grain bullets).

25-06 85 grain ballistic tip Federal Premium - 3550 fps muzzle velocity
22-250 55 grain (several loads) - 3680 fps muzzle velocity

I've always thought that was impressive. The federals are hot; the Winchester Supreme Silvertip velocity is 3470 if I remember correctly. I love the 25-06, I've said it many times. Flat-shooting, LOW Recoil, enough bullet weight to give excellent results on Coyotes, Hogs, Whitetail, Mule Deer. Through researching other forums; I've found that many hunters use 100-grain bullets on Deer, while others are more comfortable with the weight of 110, 115, and 120 grain bullets.

 

[303tom]

They both have there place............

 

[nathan]

I have both calibers. I think i dont need anything more unless i want to waste money for more bigger calibers. That s what i need for Texas sized game.

 

[1948CJ2A]

I have both calibers. I think i dont need anything more unless i want to waste money for more bigger calibers. That s what i need for Texas sized game.

You may not need anything more but that shouldn't keep you from buying more rifles!

 

[MachIVshooter]

The 7mm has some of the highest BC's out there but your chunkin a big peice of copper out there thats going to go on down range after the hit or miss.

I won't argue the advantages of 7mm bore, but the problem with 7mm-08 is that 1) being chambered in short action guns for the most part, bullets over 150 gr. don't work especially well and 2) The 7mm-08 can't push the heavies fast enough to take advantage of their high BC's (as well, BC often falls off as velocity decreases.

Now .280 Rem. vs. .25-06 changes the game a bit, but if deer are to be your largest game, I still give the .25-06 the nod. Despite the grumbling about .257" bullets, there are several in .400 to .500 range, which isn't much below the .248" pills the 7mm-08 can handle. And the higher velocity of the .25-06 gives it the advantage in trajectory to . I have pushed 117's to 3,227 FPS and 100's to 3,585 FPS without pierced primers or sticky extraction. And that's from a 24" Rem. 700.

This is using published data for max velocity for 24" tubes:

.25-06, 115 gr. Berger VLD, 3,100 FPS MV, 200 yard zero:

@ 500 yards:
Drop: 33.3
Velocity: 2,313
Energy: 1,366
Time of flight: 0.560 sec.

Drop: 234.1"
Velocity: 1,653
Energy: 698
Time of flight: 1.328 sec.

7mm-08 Rem, 140 gr. Berger VLD, 2,900 FPS MV, 200 yard zero:

@ 500 yards:
Drop: 37.6"
Velocity: 2,206
Energy: 1,513
Time of flight: .593 sec.

@ 1,000 yards:
Drop: 258.5"
Velocity: 1,616
Energy: 812
Time of flight: 1.388 sec.


As you can see, the difference in energy remains insignificant (about 160 FPE muzzle, about 110 FPE at 1,000 yards). But even with a lower BC, the .25-06 will have less drop and a shorter flight time, regardless of range. It's not much of a difference, truly, as long shots with any rifle require accurate ranging and knowing your ballistics table like you know your own face. But a longer MPBR is always nice.

My own 117 gr. handloads averaging 3,195 FPS are only 32.5" low @ 500, despite the lower (.410) BC of the Sierra 117 gr. Gameking. My 100 gr. 3585 FPS Barnes TSX-BT load only drops 27.1" at 500 and retains 1,517 FPE.

For the OP's purposes, I think the .25-06 is probably the better choice, if only by a small margin. It's not quite as efficient as the 7mm-08, and the difference in recoil is negligeable, but rifle choices, ammo availability and ammo cost favors the .25-06, and for varminting, the .25-06 is just plain superior. 75 gr. bullets at 3,700 or 3,800 FPS make a wonderful mess of vermin. This I know

 

[Quat]

7mm-08 was what I went with. Have loaded from weights from 115/120's for coyotes to 145/160's for cow elk and caribou in it. Shoots flat enough at any range one should be shooting at something for sport and carries enough energy, efficient cartridge, short action. Personally, I think it is just right for the coyote to deer range.
Handloading a strong action, only ever lost 100-150fps up to 145 grain vs a handloaded 7mm express/280 with a 24 inch barrel, with much less powder. It got popular with silhouette shooters for a reason.

 

[DirtyHarry31]

Since your talking about the 25-06 or a 7-08 I don't see why you don't go with a 270 Winny. Flat shooter, various bullet weights for different game & you can get ammo anywhere cheap for it. Reloading it will give you the customize touch. The BC on these bullets are great & can almost (within 100-150 vel) reach 7mm mag velocity. But you money, spend it as you please but for the price, I'd got 270.

 

[Kachok]

The ol 270 is a fine choice for sure, with factory ammo it gives up nothing to the 7-08 or 25-06 except a little more recoil. It has more then enough juice for any deer that EVER walked the earth and a trajectory that rivals the 7mm Rem Mag. The advantage for 25-06 and 7-08 is in handloading, not that the 270 is a slouch on the press, but it is already near it's max performance in factory form. I don't know why but some cartrages just tweek better then others, I could only squeeze an extra 100fps out of my 130gr 270 but with my 140gr 6.5x55 I am nearly 300fps over factory loads. I don't load 25-06 but I have been told over and over by people who do that you can exceed 3,500fps with 100gr bullets, that is also about 300fps over factory, at those speeds the quarterbore is a magnum I don't care if it was not given that name back in 1969.

 

[Lost_Cowboy]

I have bought the Savage Axis 25-06 and I have 117gr. Hornady BT SST rounds. I have also found that the 87 gr. drops the lest at just over 30" @ 500yrd. movin at 3600 fps. I think that this will be a great gun for what I have in it of only $460 givin me a sling tragets and 40 rounds of ammo. I thank you all for your imput and I am glad to have gotten so much imput.