Yes.
And the jury will hear testimony from expert witnesses.
And evidence regarding what the defender knew befor ethe fact could make all the difference..
25 yards is too far away for legal defense nonsense.
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And the jury will hear testimony from expert witnesses.
And evidence regarding what the defender knew befor ethe fact could make all the difference..
DeepSouth
Random Guy
If you think statements that say “in many cases” and “you MAY have explaining to do” are ridiculous, then... I don’t even know where to begin, you abandoned reason.
That said if you have a mass shooter in a Walmart 175’ feet away and in the extremely unlikely event you’re a good enough shot to put one between his eyes, I’m pretty sure most people would be grateful if you did, no after the distance.
Actually, any time you use lethal force against someone, whether at 25 yards or 2 yards, you will have some explaining to do. Intentionally attempting to hurt, intentionally hurting or intentionally killing another human is always a crime. However, you can escape criminal liability if it can be established that your intentional act of violence was legally justified.
How much explaining it will take to get you off the hook, if you even can get off the hook, will depend on exactly what happened and how it happened.
This for the win.
In any projectile practice I've ever done, including target archery, practice at slightly longer ranges is strictly to hone trigger (or release technique) skills.
A VERY good example is my practicing target archery at 50+ yards in prep for deer season. Never intended to loose on a deer at that range; just honing skills.
Just like I convey to new pistol shooters, using HP ammo (caveat: same grain weights) increases the probability of accuracy due to more surface contact with the bore/rifling, seeing that the same weight bullet must be longer to maintain the same weight. And, everything
I / we shoot at is a target, so we are all target shooters.In everything, and doubly so in explaining actions for potential lethal force, best be able to provide a reasonable rationale for the action.
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The best example I can imagine if you were in one of those multi-level shopping malls. If you look up at the balcony across from you, that is likely more than 25 yards away. So imagine a mass shooter coming into a place like that. Yes, 25 yards is a short shot in some wide open spaces. Thankful those incidents are rare.
Also, if someone were shooting at you from across a decent size road, that could easily be more than 25 yards.
However, I imagine most of us would not be shooting at someone that far away unless there was an obvious threat that could be explained in court. That is a hurdle we would have to overcome in any self defense shoot.
Also, if someone were shooting at you from across a decent size road, that could easily be more than 25 yards.
However, I imagine most of us would not be shooting at someone that far away unless there was an obvious threat that could be explained in court. That is a hurdle we would have to overcome in any self defense shoot.
Weeell, yeah.
Sounds like a contrived fantasy.
A drive-by shooting, about which you san do nothing? It happens.
An armed robbery? Yep. Close range, by necessity.
A car-jacking? We see far too many.
A violent attack at an ATM or gas pump? Okay.
But someone "shooting at you from across a decent size road"? Mistaken identity, maybe? Is deadly force your best response?
old lady new shooter
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How about the San Bernardino shooting? The terrorists came in and killed people who had recently made them a baby shower.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Funny how contrived fantasies seem to have a basis in reality. Again, self defense includes defense of others. Vic Stacy engaged rifle shooter with his revolver at 150 feet. Rifle shooter had killed two people, their dogs, and was attempting to kill a LEO.
Yeah, I read some of the stories and what it appears is that the jury disliked the victim and the driver but the newspaper stories did little to actually indicate what was in the trial record. The prosecution obviously failed to make a case there to the jury and it makes you wonder what the jury instructions on what the law meant were in that case.
I would not take that case as precedent but rather a failure of the prosecution and judge to put forth proper jury instructions regarding the case. From the stories though, it is impossible to see whether or not an actual self defense claim was made by the defendant.
waterhouse
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My only real life shooting was from about 47 yards, but I cheated and used a rifle. I had some explaining to do, which was mainly to explain that I was aware that the handgun pointed at me could cause me serious bodily injury or death from that range. Grand jury seemed fine with that.
Another guy in our department had a 104 yard shot with a pistol vs a suspect with a rifle. Grand jury was good with that one too.
That said, if I wasn’t in uniform I would have had time to head the opposite direction and seek cover in both of the above scenarios, because distance may open up non shooting alternatives that may not be available at closer range.
Given a limited time and training budget, I’d certainly focus on getting fast and accurate at shorter ranges before I worried about the less likely scenarios I described above.
I do. At least on a static range, I’ve gone 10 for 10 A zone hits from 50 yards. Keeping rounds in a silhouette from 100 yards is also very doable. But both my duty and off duty guns have red dots, which helps a lot. I doubt I would do as well with someone shooting back.
Another guy in our department had a 104 yard shot with a pistol vs a suspect with a rifle. Grand jury was good with that one too.
That said, if I wasn’t in uniform I would have had time to head the opposite direction and seek cover in both of the above scenarios, because distance may open up non shooting alternatives that may not be available at closer range.
Given a limited time and training budget, I’d certainly focus on getting fast and accurate at shorter ranges before I worried about the less likely scenarios I described above.
I do. At least on a static range, I’ve gone 10 for 10 A zone hits from 50 yards. Keeping rounds in a silhouette from 100 yards is also very doable. But both my duty and off duty guns have red dots, which helps a lot. I doubt I would do as well with someone shooting back.
jmorris
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Define “accuracy”, means different things to different people and a pistol I conceal carry might not be the same one others do. So the answers to your question won’t really be comparable.
I can clear a plat rack (8” plates) with most of mine at 25 yards, standing using nothing but both hands.
I find it hilarious that the guy who said I need to worry about gangs of thugs on the dirt roads of rural Kansas thinks it's fantasy that one of these said thugs would hang back out of arms reach.
The same guy who champions carrying plenty of rounds is seemingly more worried about litigation for hitting the bad guy on purpose at 25 yards than an innocent bystander on accident.
Who said anything about litigation?
My point is simply that I am more concerned about perps who want something from me, and who would therefore move in close, that having someone decide for some reason to shoot at me from a distance,
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Well you have a couple different times here IN A THREAD TITLED "LEGAL DEFENSE" IN THE LEGAL FORUM.
all the hand wringing you do and you're just going to ignore that guy that's across the parking lot by the car 25 yards away that starts shooting at you for shooting his buddies.
Not in thi context.
But yes, criminal and civil liability are always important factors in the use or threat of force.
I have pointed out the importance of looking our for criminal accomplices on a number of occasions.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Sure, you generally won't be robbed, raped, or assaulted from much more than arm's length and that will encompass a hugely overwhelming amount of such threats. Longer distance threats are much much less common, but they do exist as we see repeatedly from time to time and are hardly in the realm of fantasy. They are just highly unlikely to happen to any one person.
Okay.
jmorris
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That post was deleted because it was “off topic”, I found it searching for the shooting that happened in TX as well where a man was shot, with a 243 IIRC, by the home owner as he was fleeing with a TV from the home. I couldn’t find it in a quick search but it he was over 100 yards away but inside 200 and the shooter was no billed by a grand jury, didn’t even make it to trial.
I suppose that’s off topic as well because it’s obviously not a defense shooting but points out that your not going to go to prison even if you are not making choices many would think are based on sound judgment as long as the law allows. No matter the distance.
The law as written is why the man was not convicted, despite how the prosecution presented its “intension”.
WrongHanded
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With all but one of my pistols (an LCR), I can stay on an 8" target offhand at 25 yards. There's nothing magical about that, and anyone who practices it at all should be able to do so.
What's you point?
Just as info, where I used to work - a college, we could attract a rampage killer. We had some pretty strange kids at one time. My office was at the end of a hundred yard long (I measured it) hallway in a big building. Might circumstance put me at one end and the opponent at the other - who knows. Our large classrooms/auditoriums were very large (don't know the exact distances - about 20 yards) but you could see yourself at opposite ends.
Spare me the discussion of should you shoot, etc. I'm just mentioning possible distances.
Spare me the discussion of should you shoot, etc. I'm just mentioning possible distances.
It had nothing to do with shooting distances.
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