257 Roberts or 257AI?

Status
Not open for further replies.

gdcpony

Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
850
Location
Sherrodsville, OH
Sorry, for the long read for such a simple question, but sometimes I think we lose the history of a rifle today and some have rich stories to share.

I sit staring at my beloved "Bob" with saddened that it must be changed once again. It started life as a service rifle in 1944 in Germany as a 98 Mauser. In 1954 as a surplus buy it was rebarreled with a 25" sporter weight tube and sporterized rather beautifully buy Johnson Automatics. Don't know what path it took after that before our first meeting in 1988, but it was still beautiful then.

Long ago it was the first center fire rifle I really ever shot seriously. My friend's dad, Leroy, owned a gun shop and we were shooting .22's. He brought out a gun and handed me a round as long as my young hand. at his insistence I took a shot at a wrist thick sapling. Both it and I fell over. His dad came out and cuffed him upseid the head for having a newbie shoot a 300 Weatherby. He then handed me a rifle and two boxes of rounds. I was scared but it became love at first shot.

Over the next 6years until I left for the military, I shot and shot that gun over and over. I was taught how to reload and did so over and over to keep it fed. When I left I never forgot that rifle. When I returned the shop had closed and I never knew what happened to that gun.

A few years later I enlisted into another branch and while I was gone the rifle found its way back into Leroy's house. We don't know what the rifle went though but it must have been in rough hands. I never knew it had been found again. It sat while I deployed a few times with rifles I didn't care for as much in my hand.

I went home again now two decades from the first day I had pulled that trigger for the first time. I got married and settled into a reservist life (yuck). A few months later the remains of the old closed down shop went up for auction. I had not talked to Leroy in quite some time, but checked out the listing online. There it was! She was more than a bit beat up with a cracked stock and worn bluing, but she was going up for sale. I let the wife know that she was coming home with me no matter what. Have to love a wife who simply says then don't come home without her.
1916313_102954819755642_4500942_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.jpg
Her as I brought her home that day

When I showed up Leroy was kind of surprised and looked at me sheepishly when I told him my goal. He couldn't pull it from the auction, but would have given it to me if he hadn't thought I had forgotten it. I told him not to worry, it was coming home anyways and any money I paid that he got was not enough for the lessons that came with the gun's past. I probably paid too much at $485, but I was handed a set of casings with it that I know I had reloaded at some point in the past.

I took her home and patched her up as best I could until I could order a stock for her. So on went the Boyds Thumbhole. While I was at I gave into the time and replaced the now broken aperture sight with a scope mount. And I have been shooting her ever since. When I returned to active duty, she came with me this time.
52585355_2250872281630541_3818978790961315840_o.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.jpg
Just after the Stock Swap and scope mounting. Yep, she brought those antlers home.

Now, she sits still coming out for the range and to go get a deer or 'yote once in a while. The barrel has about 8k rounds through her at an average speed of between 3000 and 3200fps. The MOA accuracy is now 1.5 and I know the barrel is worn out. It seems soon the last remaining original part of the rifle will be the old WWII action.

52856760_2250871914963911_4003333351539736576_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.jpg
As she sits right now

I am looking to an ER Shaw replacement this spring. I am thinking of doing the 40* shoulder round, but am undecided at this point. I am looking for input on that. I do know the work list that I will send her for to return her to as good- and maybe better functionally- as new.

Rebarrel in contour 3 (Light Varmint) at 26" -$190
Reblue in a Matte -$130
Fitting the barrel -$130
True bolt face -$50
Lap of the bolt lugs -$70
Total -$570

I know I could replace it with a newer cartridge and rifle for less that might even shoot better, but this is a nostalgia build to me. I just want to know whether I should step up to the Improved or simply rebarrel her in her current chamber. Might be worth remembering that as a Mauser she has the "mid length" action for bullet seating purposes (she shoots very poorly now at SAMMI spec 2.80" anymore).
52585257_2250870841630685_2510877983351242752_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.jpg
51810434_2250871471630622_5013942776945967104_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.jpg
She still teaches new shooters!
 
If velocity is your goal, the Ackley Improved version will give you a fair bit more; the case capacity increase is more noticeable in 257 Roberts that in many other AI chamberings. The question really comes down to whether or not the velocity increase is necessary for your uses.
 
i would do the AI. maybe look at a mcgowan pre fit barrel they come blued, 40 bucks for the reamer and gauges. you should not remove much from the lugs or bolt face on a mauser, what did you ever do with the stock fro the 2009 photo. maybe see about a stock from richards microfits
 
i would do the AI. maybe look at a mcgowan pre fit barrel they come blued, 40 bucks for the reamer and gauges. you should not remove much from the lugs or bolt face on a mauser, what did you ever do with the stock fro the 2009 photo. maybe see about a stock from richards microfits
I am afraid the stock went in a garage sale to a guy who thought he could repair it. You can't see the crack in it, but it is there under the fore end and running across the mag well to the trigger guard.
If velocity is your goal, the Ackley Improved version will give you a fair bit more; the case capacity increase is more noticeable in 257 Roberts that in many other AI chamberings. The question really comes down to whether or not the velocity increase is necessary for your uses.
Maybe not necessary, but it is one of those things I am tempted to try. Not to mention brass is VERY hard to find now so a longer life would be nice.
 
I am afraid the stock went in a garage sale to a guy who thought he could repair it. You can't see the crack in it, but it is there under the fore end and running across the mag well to the trigger guard.

Maybe not necessary, but it is one of those things I am tempted to try. Not to mention brass is VERY hard to find now so a longer life would be nice.
ok just figured to ask lol. the AI are very nice, rifles will normally shoot the parent case well when fireforming less case stretch, longer case life the primer pockets last longer, less bolt trust to. and it's just cool with ackley improved on the barrel.
 
index.php
here is my 1909 argentine mauser in 7x57AI built by john van patten 24 inch douglas air gauged barrel. 1/4 moa rifle.
 
I have a pile of 7mm Mauser already sized to 257 Roberts that are ready to be blown out to Ackley. The 257 Roberts AI is just to close to the 6mm rifles I use the most. It will be sporting another barrel soon. Let me know if you need some cheap brass!
 
I took her home and patched her up as best I could until I could order a stock for her.

I'm doubtless in the minority here, but I much prefer the looks and character of the original, cracked stock, worn bluing and all, over its ugly replacement. But, how the rifle shoots trumps aesthetics every time. Well, maybe... :scrutiny:
 
index.php
here is my 1909 argentine mauser in 7x57AI built by john van patten 24 inch douglas air gauged barrel. 1/4 moa rifle.
Nice Rig. I used to have that same round. Built on a 1919 "Fabrica De Armes" 98 action. It had a decocking knob on the back like a Springfield would. I kick myself all the time for getting rid of it. It was a pawn shop pick up that the owner didn't figure he would ever sell because of the round. I had a 7x57 too and tons of brass so it made forming easy. Dies were a bit harder to get a hold of. They went with the rifle when I sold it for twice what I bought it for, but I still regret it!

I have a pile of 7mm Mauser already sized to 257 Roberts that are ready to be blown out to Ackley. The 257 Roberts AI is just to close to the 6mm rifles I use the most. It will be sporting another barrel soon. Let me know if you need some cheap brass!
You Might see a PM soon. I am always on the hunt for brass for it. I usually size up 6mm Remington.
 
Nice Rig. I used to have that same round. Built on a 1919 "Fabrica De Armes" 98 action. It had a decocking knob on the back like a Springfield would. I kick myself all the time for getting rid of it. It was a pawn shop pick up that the owner didn't figure he would ever sell because of the round. I had a 7x57 too and tons of brass so it made forming easy. Dies were a bit harder to get a hold of. They went with the rifle when I sold it for twice what I bought it for, but I still regret it!


You Might see a PM soon. I am always on the hunt for brass for it. I usually size up 6mm Remington.
i maybe setting my barrel back one day, i dont know if i will use the brass i have or start with new stuff, i got bout 150 cases if that happens then there yours.
 
I love the Roberts as-is, no AI needed:). The Rem 722 my Grandfather left me plunked a lot of hill country whitetails (and an occasional sundry livestock raider) over the decades.

It has enough oomph to handle coyotes, deer, antelope and maybe an elk (with the right pill) without the bash, crash and flash of the larger cartridges from the .25/06 on up.

Whatever you choose, you have a nice action to work with :thumbup:. Good luck!

Stay safe.
 
I'm doubtless in the minority here, but I much prefer the looks and character of the original, cracked stock, worn bluing and all, over its ugly replacement. But, how the rifle shoots trumps aesthetics every time. Well, maybe... :scrutiny:
Your not the minority.

3 personal choices; I'd replace the boyds thumbhole to a stock similar to the cracked original (without the crack). I'd go for a deep blued finish over a matte finish. And I'd stick with .257 Roberts.
 
Thats a cool story and great pictures! Glad you and the ole girl were reunited. AI cartridges are fun but I probably would go back with the original. Neither choice would be wrong.

Thank You for your Service!
 
Just as an aside - I accumulate brass by buying factory Hornady ammo, using it, and reloading the brass. So far, I'm up to five reloads (six total) with no signs of loose primer pockets, neck cracking, or imminent case head separation. I dunno how much an AI variant is going to improve case life (it's taken as gospel in general, but I've not heard quantifiable comparisons) nor how many reloads you want/need before tossing the brass and starting over.

Over the last handful of years that I've been shooting the Bob, I've never found a time in which I could not locate / buy Hornady Superformance 117gr SST ammo, and usually for less than $30/box.
 
Many years ago a friend was barreling up 257 AI's. One I had was on a commercial FN action. That rifle is now long gone-it was a turkey. Friend was an advanced hobbyist. I'll share some lessons. We had dies. Make sure you figure in the cost of dies. Dies are necessary...period. I strongly suggest having somebody barrel your action. If I had a rifle built up it would be with the idea of keeping the thing forever. Sure, money is a consideration. On planning an 257 AI a gunsmith warned me that Mauser actions could be iffy feeding forty degree shoulder rounds. Might be a good idea to do some homework. That project got dropped for other reasons. Having shot many rounds through a standard Bob, got three, the questions comes up of do I really need an AI. The answer is no.
 
Gdcpony, that's a great story and told very well. Thanks for sharing!
 
I think a moderately overloaded .257 Remington Roberts would do everything I could imagine for the "quarterbore."

Right! Let's say for the sake of our discussion that I made a wildcat. This wildcat would be a 7x57 case necked down to .257 with no other change. How would I start to load this round. I'd start to load, work up, until pressure signs showed up. These signs would be difficult extraction and marks on the case head. At that point back off. At some point I would find accurate loads.

Instead of a wildcat what would happen when the standard 257 Roberts were loaded this way?. Remington was the one at the time of introduction that came up with low pressure loads. It had nothing to do with weak actions. Load the Roberts until you get indications of excessive pressure. Load it as if it were any other cartridge. Ned's loads, at introduction, were more nearly like our +P of this day.
 
What Mowgli Terry said......... And while it would indeed be cool to have "Ackley Improved" stamped on the barrel; The 257 Roberts alone is still a fine, well mannered cartridge that tends to get things done. And without a lot of the muzzle blast and noise of bigger quarter bores. My buddy has a Roberts and it impresses me..... Even though I own a .25-06 and a .257 Weatherby. If a shooter wants to have an Ackley cartridge just for the coolness factor the 257 Roberts is an excellent choice, IMHO. I suppose a decision would have to be made between a regular "Bob"; doing the 257 A.I. just to have an Ackley; or stepping up to even more horsepower with a .25-06. Buddy of mine had a .25-06 built on a WWII 98 action back in the mid 1980's and it was a tack driver. I'm leaning in the direction of the OP staying with the standard "Bob" and not having to fire form cases and having the same nice chambering that the rifle had when he first fell in love with it.
 
Is there an optimum barrel length for a 257 ai? Mine is 23" and I've been tempted to shorten it.

Two of my Roberts caliber rifles have 26 inch barrels. One is a Mauser built up with a Douglas Premium barrel. The rifle has a minimum chamber with 12 inch twist for max 87gr, bullets.. It was my principal varmint rifle. The long barrel gave good velocity. The rifle is accurate. The performance with 75 gr. Hornady bullet was spectacular. The other is a Number One B that came with 26 inch barrel. The last rifle was one we built up with 24 inch Adams&Bennett barrel on a Savage 110 action and Hogue stock. Where I'm going with this is tailor your rifle to your hunting needs. It's always been in my mind the loss of velocity is the cost you pay for trimming back barrels. I have had, as an aside, people get ill with me for sharing how well A&B barrels shot on other forums. The accuracy was a secret. There was a big mystery about who made the barrels. Green Mountain has been selling barrels branded A&B.
 
Nosler gives 3381 for the standard Roberts as opposed to the 3550 with Reloader 17. That translates to 169 fps difference. That the point being is the Improved with all the hoopla really worth it? That data for the Improved had 56//H4831 at 3483 fps. The difference there was 101fps. Not doubting anybody but giving credit to Nosler there does not seem to be enough difference to make the Improved worth the effort. YMMV
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top