257 Roberts won't group

[beerslingercrm]

A few years a go I bought a New Winchester M70 Fearherweight in 257 Rob. Took it home cleaned it. Mounted a Leopold VX-2 scope on it. Off to the range I go.

I was shooting Hornady 117 +p Superperformance (of which I bought 5 boxes). The best I could do was about 2 1/2 inch groups. took it home cleaned it and back in the safe it went.
Last year I Replaced the trigger with a Timmy. Made sure the barrel is free floating. Back to the range I go. I wouldn't even call what I shot groups. Holes every where. Thinking maybe I forgot how to shoot I got my 308 out. Nice tight groups. Back to the house I go thinking broken scope loos bases or rings or action screws or something else loose. Checked all screws and torqued to the Owners Manuel. Replaced the scope. Cleaned. Back to the range. No change. Tried some Remington 117 corloct. A little better but not much. Back into the safe it went.

This year I decided to try and work up a handload and see if anything changed. Used Sierra 100gr Pro Hunter. H4350 starting at 37.1gr going up .5gr to 44.1gr. Hornady +p brass. WLR Primers Let the barrel cool between every shot. 3 inch groups maybe.

Anybody have any ideas of what else I can do to get this dang thing to shoot straight? My goal is 1 inch group someday. Thanks in advance and Thankyou for your time.

 

[redneck2]

I see this is your first post. Welcome to THR.

Accuracy is a funny thing. Funny as in weird. You did the things that I would try first.

I'd maybe go to the heaviest or lightest bullets available. Obviously check the crown carefully. FWIW, when Steve's Pages website was up and running, he relayed a story about a rifle he had that would not shoot well.

He spent a ton of time trying to figure it out. Became an obsession. Different bullets, cases, powder. Finally tried a different brand of primer. IIRC, groups went from 3"-5" down to sub 1". That's something I most likely wouldn't have tried but it worked.

I had a variety of bullets for a .25-06 I used to have. If I still had them, I'd send them so you could try them out. Problem with trying different powders/bullets is that you can have a lot of money wrapped up in something that you can't use.

In the end, there could be a flaw in the barrel that you can't see. Maybe check it with a bore scope if you can find somebody that has one.

 

[Steve S.]

I had the same problem with a Kimber CC M84 in .308 - 5" at 100 yards on a good day - all types of shelf ammo - just shot terrible. Did all the checking and checked again. I cannot tell you what changed (the gun became either "broken in" or I learned to shoot it) but groups started shrinking over time - about 200 rounds later - (shoot WW 150 grn. PP exclusively) - was just at range this Monday past - first three rounds 1" group at 1" high at 100 yards - PERFECT (deer look out)! Anyway, I know this is no help to you but the frustration is certainly related - what changed, I could not tell you but I lean toward both causes that I listed.

 

[Klint Beastwood]

I would try some more factory ammo to see if you can get a least a minute. Leaves the handload error out.
I would say its the rifle, that barrel alone would give me a bad feel for precision, flex being the concern...but assuming that you checked everything ele and didnt miss anything..I would try different match ammo. Unfortunately I wouldnt call the 257 roberts a common cartridge nowadays but federal, nosler and norma off the top of head have decent ammo to try...
if it gets any better then maybe try loading some up...

 

[TN Outlaw]

Id make sure its setting down in the stock properly. My Featherweight has a very tight factory bedding job and can be fussy to seat all the way in. I had it go from shooting MOA to shotgun pattern after a trigger job. Figured out i had to kinda jiggle it as i put pressure on the bbl/ action to seat it into the stock just a fuzz more than it was. Back to shooting good now.

Also check the crown and some more factory ammo. Good luck.

 

[Missionary]

Greetings
You wrote you free floated the barrel and accuracy went to patterns. Was that barrel set with a pressure point near the end of the stock ?
If the barrel was with a pressure point near stock end try adding some card stock under the barrel where the pressure point was. Try adding one layer at a time thus adding more up pressure.
Some feather weights barrels need that pressure point to shoot well. The thinner the barrel the more apt they can be to vibrate different. Just a half grain of powder can affect the vibration of very long thin barrels.

 

[Skylerbone]

I nearly leapt out of my chair when I read "pattern" and Superformance". I posted several years back about a .300 WM that put those suckers all over the page, then dropped a 1/2" group with Federal.

Bore scope and stock adjustments would also be my suggestions. Where I would actually start is with a check of chamber dimensions and a casting.

 

[Sunray]

"...Steve's Pages website was up..." Still up. One of Steve's buddies took it over and runs it in his memory. The reloading pages aren't that good though. Copied from somewhere(likely the assorted on-line manuals) and incomplete. Just has the data by bullet weight. Nothing else.
http://stevespages.com/page8a.htm
"...bought 5 boxes..." Except that you needed brass anyway, never buy ammo in bulk without trying one box first. And +P brass is no different than regular brass. The stamp is there so the guys in the factory don't mix it with non +P ammo.
Hornady used to call their 'Superformance' brand, their 'Light Magnum' brand. Just hot near max loads.
"...starting at 37.1gr..." That's below minimum. Mind you, it's not +P. No such thing as .257 Roberts +P in reloading manuals.
A 'Featherweight' is not a target rifle. It's made for hunting accuracy. However, start by making sure all the rifle's screws are tight.
Free floating guarantees absolutely nothing. Some rifles just don't like it. Suggest you put a piece of match book under the barrel just aft of the end of the forestock and try it. If accuracy is better(A consistent 2.5 to 3 inches is fine for deer sized game though.) put a dab of bedding material in. Probably a good idea to glass bed the thing anyway. Use an Acraglas kit and follow the directions on the box.

 

[SwampWolf]

I know Leopold makes great scopes-but you might want to try a different scope before you do much of anything else.

 

[243winxb]

Fearherweight

Some feather weight barrels need that pressure point to shoot well.

Takes about 9 pounds of up pressure on the pencil thin barrels.

 

[flashhole]

What is the twist on your barrel? If it is not 1:9 or faster you will not be able to shoot heavy-for-caliber bullets accurately. Try an 85 - 90 grain bullet.

 

[beerslingercrm]

Greetings
You wrote you free floated the barrel and accuracy went to patterns. Was that barrel set with a pressure point near the end of the stock ?
If the barrel was with a pressure point near stock end try adding some card stock under the barrel where the pressure point was. Try adding one layer at a time thus adding more up pressure.
Some feather weights barrels need that pressure point to shoot well. The thinner the barrel the more apt they can be to vibrate different. Just a half grain of powder can affect the vibration of very long thin barrels.

The barrel came free floating

 

[Skylerbone]

The barrel came free floating

That won't necessarily equate to more accurate. Sometimes a selling feature isn't all it's cracked up to be, like heated leather seats in Death Valley at noon. All you need right now are some shims and a few rounds to test things out. One more thing to eliminate.

 

[VoodooMountain]

I feel your pain. I am going through something similar with one of my rifles but in my case I think (hope) it's the scope.

Have you checked the crown for chips. Can you see any irregularities when you look down the barrel? A scope is better.

Also, as others have pointed out, you may just have a very tempremental rifle that will only like 1 or 2 loads.

 

[amflyer]

You may have already done this, but clean every last little bit of copper out of that barrel, then shoot about 5 rounds of the Core Lokt through it to season the barrel, then shoot your groups. I use the Bore Tech line. I agree that super performance probably isn't going to be your most accurate round.

 

[Kingcreek]

My story. Bought a M70 .243 Featherweight. I tried everything factory and handloads and shots were 3" and sometimes 6" at 100 yards. Took it to a well respected gunsmith and he bedded the action, free floated the barrel, worked it over and gave it back to me no better than before. I gave up and was going to take it to a gunshow to trade away. My father decided to go with me at the last minute and saw the guncase, asked what it was and I told him the story. He said he wanted to buy it from me to see if he could get it to shoot. He never could and he later died and I got the rifle back.
Beautiful rifle but it wouldn't shoot. I was looking to sell or trade it again but I wound up talking to a different gunsmith about it. Without even looking at it he told me to try taking it out of the stock and if there were no obvious problems remount it and take the action screws down each little by little until the rear was tight and front one barely snug.
Every group since then will usually have the first 2 touching and the 3rd within an inch. that rifle has since taken 7 pronghorn and who knows how many groundhogs, coyotes, and a handful of prairie dogs.

 

[FN in MT]

I had a .257 Bob, Win FWT back in the 80's or 90's and it shot like crap too. I wasted a LOT of time and reloading components on that rifle. But it DID look nice.

The jump to the rifling was VERY long. I got decent groups, good enough for hunting, by seating bullets WAY out to max. This made heavy/long bullets my only choice.

Sold it.

Built a .257 Roberts AI on a 1955 Win 70 standard grade in 06, I had laying around. That gun shoots small groups with everything and I can load down or up to near .25-06 velocity If I wish. A far better deal than the other one.

I feel Your pain OP.

 

[jgh4445]

A lot of excellent advice here and several good things to try. I would only add that you should only change one thing at the time. If you make two changes to the rifle or ammo you won't know which variable made the difference.

 

[Clark]

I built a 257 Roberts Ackley on a VZ24 with Lothar Walther light varmint barrel 10" twist in 2002.
With a 40x scope and no wind, it shoots 0.5" with 72 and 75 gr bullets, 0.75" with 87 gr bullets, 1" with 100 gr and 1.3" with 115 or 117 bullets.
It is a little too heavy for hunting.
I have just built a much lighter 257 Roberts on an Arisaka, but have not shot it yet.

 

[flashhole]

Geez - another guy who can't hit the dime.

 

[GRIZ1911]

A few years a go I bought a New Winchester M70 Fearherweight in 257 Rob. Took it home cleaned it. Mounted a Leopold VX-2 scope on it. Off to the range I go.

I was shooting Hornady 117 +p Superperformance (of which I bought 5 boxes). The best I could do was about 2 1/2 inch groups. took it home cleaned it and back in the safe it went.
Last year I Replaced the trigger with a Timmy. Made sure the barrel is free floating. Back to the range I go. I wouldn't even call what I shot groups. Holes every where. Thinking maybe I forgot how to shoot I got my 308 out. Nice tight groups. Back to the house I go thinking broken scope loos bases or rings or action screws or something else loose. Checked all screws and torqued to the Owners Manuel. Replaced the scope. Cleaned. Back to the range. No change. Tried some Remington 117 corloct. A little better but not much. Back into the safe it went.

This year I decided to try and work up a handload and see if anything changed. Used Sierra 100gr Pro Hunter. H4350 starting at 37.1gr going up .5gr to 44.1gr. Hornady +p brass. WLR Primers Let the barrel cool between every shot. 3 inch groups maybe.

Anybody have any ideas of what else I can do to get this dang thing to shoot straight? My goal is 1 inch group someday. Thanks in advance and Thankyou for your time.

Just read an article by Mr.Craig Bottington , with a similar problem. Exchange the scope on the .257 with a known good one from another rifle. Sometimes a scope is affected internally

 

[Skylerbone]

If you read carefully the OP did swap optics for a known good one JIC the Leupold was defective. He also inspected all fasteners.

Back to the house I go thinking broken scope loos bases or rings or action screws or something else loose. Checked all screws and torqued to the Owners Manuel. Replaced the scope.

 

[Cocked & Locked]

My .257 Roberts red pad M77 shot mediocre groups. It was more like a pattern. I took the fine looking old Redfield Tracker 3-9x40 scope off and replaced it with a fixed power Leupold M8 6x scope.

Problem solved.

This rifle prefers the 117 grain Hornady Superformance ammo. 117 grain Remington Core-Lokt and 117 Winchester Power Point group good enough to hunt with but the Hornady does better.

 

[243winxb]

There are just some barrels that don't shoot well. They get traded.

Had a Win 70 in 223. Would you be happy with 1 3/4" groups. Nope. All the tricks in the book, didnt help it.

 

[dranrab]

I am with 243winxb. There nothing more satisfying than dumping an accuracy dud on an unsuspecting fool in a trade.