30-30 vs 7.62x39 for Deer

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mr_Flintstone

Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2016
Messages
1,437
Location
Eastern KY
Using 150 grain soft points for both rounds, would there be any measurable difference between using 30-30 or 7.62x39 for deer?

30-30 would obviously be from a lever gun, and 7.62x39 would be from a bolt action rifle.
 
I don't think so. I've used both. And, I did have a bolt action .30-30 (Savage M340), I have a 12" .30-30 pistol (TC Contender), but I've never owned, nor have I ever really wanted a lever gun in .30-30. My 7.62x39s are SKS rifles I bought nearly 30 years ago for cheap. One's a paratrooper carbine that's never killed anything, but paper. The other is a surplus rifle which I have killed deer and hogs with. I shoot 154 SP Wolf/Tulammo/Silver Bear or what ever branded Russian ammo. This stuff hammers hogs and that's mostly what I shoot with it as I have the gun set up for night hunting.
 
The deer won't know the difference. The 30-30 is a very effective cartridge for hogs and deer. With 150s, the 30-30 may be about 100 fps faster than the 7.62x39, but there really aren't any circumstances where that can make a difference. 150 grs at 2200 fps with a traditional cup and core bullet (7.62x39) will kill deer out to 150 yards. The key thing to keep in mind is having a bullet constructed (for both cartridges) that will expand at terminal velocities in the 1500 - 1700 fps range (and there aren't many) but will not explode at 2000 fps. So. it really comes down to the rifle you prefer for the job. Enjoy!
 
So this time we're taking the .30-30 and AK/SKS rounds and running a 150gr expander 2200-2400fps... IMO, this should be a much better comparison.

As a fan of the .30-30, I'd still go with it... lever, crankbolt, or single-shot. Seems like CZ makes a nice rifle for the AK/SKS round though.
 
Thanks guys. You have confirmed what I already thought. It looks like the only real thing 7.62x39 gives up is the ability to shoot 170 grain bullets. But who knows, maybe somewhere out there is some load data for that too.
 
Thanks guys. You have confirmed what I already thought. It looks like the only real thing 7.62x39 gives up is the ability to shoot 170 grain bullets. But who knows, maybe somewhere out there is some load data for that too.

I never fired a 170 grain bullet out of a .30-30, though I have fired some cast/gas checked 180 RN for range fun. I reckon a .30-30 flat nose 170 grain bullet might work in the x39 case, but unless the bore was ,308 diameter rather than .311, you're probably going to give up some accuracy. Can't put TOO much bullet in it or you'll crowd out the powder capacity.

Absolutely no reason to use bigger than 150s, though. My favorite .30-30 bullet is a 150 grain Nosler BT, same bullet I shoot in my .308, and it works great at the lower velocities, too. I shoot 'em about 2150 out of the .30-30 and just shy of 2800 fps out of the .308. I found that the affore mentioned 154 factory loads in x39 worked so well on game, and they're a little more accurate than anything else I've tried in my SKS, that I quit bothering with handloads. Bonus, that stuff is cheap, but I do have to mail order it. It's hard to find locally.
 
It all depends on the actual bullet you use.

That too...

In a levergun, for .30-30, most folks will run whichever 150gr RN. From everything I've understood, it's good for a 250yd PBZ or just dead-on at 200. Usually, assuming some flavor of crankbolt or single-shot, if you load a 150gr SP, you increase your reach from a 200yd zero out to 300yds. Provided you have enough speed and accuracy/expansion is good, the deer won't know the difference.

Let's say you run, in your 7.62x39 crankbolt, a 150gr... I'd say you can work up loads for the RN as well as the SP. What's the diameter for the AK round? I'm trying to remember whether the 150gr RN can be had here.
 
What's the diameter for the AK round?
By default .310-.311, however, sneaky savage and a few mini 30s have graced us with a .308 bore with the x39 chambering. In the traditional 7.62x39 diameter, the sst is pretty popular, but if one is lucky enough to have the .308 bore, there are a multitude of good options available.
 
The 7.62x39 is a dandy little deer rifle in its place. A woodland rifle where shots seldom stray over 100 yards and usually stay under the century mark. It will never be a 30-30 though. Much like a 308 Winchester will never be a 300 Winchester magnum.

I am fond of the 7.62x39. Shoot it in a Ruger Ranch Rifle. I normally use the Sierra 125 grain Pro Hunter bullet pushed to just under 2500 FPS using CFE Black powder. I can push the 150 grain SPH to 2200 FPS using the same powder.

I also have a H&R Handi Rifle chambered in 30-30. Using the SPH 150 grain pushed by Leverevolution powder I get over 2500 FPS. More than 300 FPS faster than the x39 pushing the same brand, series, and weight bullet. Plus the fact that the x39 uses a .311 SPH while the 30-30 uses a .308 SPH. Better BC. A difference that shows itself at ranges beyond 100 yards.

But you are using a 6" longer barrel you say? Out of my Mossberg Brush Gun’s 16’ barrel my 30-30 handloads are still over 200 FPS faster than the 7.62x39. The drawback is that I can only load 2 rounds, one in the chamber and one in the magazine, and the 30-30 is LOUD out of such a short barrel. There is a solution to the 2 rounds though. I can load the Hornady 160 grain FTX to full magazine capacity. With the heavier bullet it is still 200 FPS faster out of the short barrel 30-30.

The 7.62x39 and the 30-30 are equal is an argument that I hear all the time. This is simply not the case. The 30-30 will outclass the 7.62x39 ballistically all day every day. Even by non-handloaders, especially since the introduction of the Hornady Leverevolution cartridges. Will a deer know the difference? Maybe not at closer ranges, but let the range start extending past 100 yards and the difference becomes increasingly evident. The 30-30 adds about 100 yards to whatever you can do with the 7.62x39. Ballistics tell the tale.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DM~
I've never used a 30-30 on deer I just am not fond of lever guns. I have shot my fair share of 7.62x39 though. I use a 16" barrel AR-15 that I absolutely love. It shoots .308 diameter bullets very well and the best shooting bullet I've tried is the 135 FTX with CFE BLK powder. 2280fps and very accurate and 2 deer I killed with that load were shot at 25 yards and dropped quickly. Using a 123 .310 Gold Dot and CFE BLK you can get over 2500fps That makes it a 150 yard cartridge quite easily. I've always been told a 30-30 is a 150 yard cartridge. So I guess it's a wash.

I don't see much difference between them at 150 yard s or less, if you have a 30-30 you like then you will gain nothing going to a x39. If you have a x39 you'll not gain much switching to a 30-30.
 
I've never used a 30-30 on deer I just am not fond of lever guns. I have shot my fair share of 7.62x39 though. I use a 16" barrel AR-15 that I absolutely love. It shoots .308 diameter bullets very well and the best shooting bullet I've tried is the 135 FTX with CFE BLK powder. 2280fps and very accurate and 2 deer I killed with that load were shot at 25 yards and dropped quickly. Using a 123 .310 Gold Dot and CFE BLK you can get over 2500fps That makes it a 150 yard cartridge quite easily. I've always been told a 30-30 is a 150 yard cartridge. So I guess it's a wash.

I don't see much difference between them at 150 yard s or less, if you have a 30-30 you like then you will gain nothing going to a x39. If you have a x39 you'll not gain much switching to a 30-30.
So I take it you don’t see much difference between a 308 and a 300 Win Mag, or a 7mm-08 and a 7mm Rem Mag?

Using the OP’s criteria of 150 grain bullets, the 7.62x39, assuming a MPBR of +/- 3", you are talking almost 175 yards, the 30-30 will increase that by almost 75 yards. Using my load data here, but loading manuals and external ballistics charts will confirm it.

I recently loaded up a bunch of 147 grain pulls in 300 BLK, 7.52x39 and 30-30. All were zeroed at 200 yards. The rifles were a H&R AAC Handi Rifle, Ruger American Ranch, and the H&R Handi Rifle respectively. This is what the trajectories looked like.
300 BLK
100 yards +4.5" / 300 yards -17"
7.62x39
100 yards + 3.75 / 300 yards -14"
30-30 Win
100 yards +2.5" / 300 yards -10.5"

Again, ballistics tell the tale.

Note that these were .308 bullets. The only difference was the starting velocity. Had I been using .311 bullets in the 7.62x39 the trajectory would of looked more like the 300 blackout trajectory. The fatter bullet is simply shorter and has a poorer BC. FWIW, while true that some 7.62x39 Rifles shoot .308 bullets well, mine just does not. The 300 yard groups were over 7". The Ruger is the most consistently accurate of the three when using bullets it liked.
 
When it comes to killing game it's not just about trajectory. It's also about retained energy and energy is what required to take down game NOT trajectory. I understand the differences between a .308 and a 300 Win Mag.

When looking at the energy numbers of the intermediate rifle cartridges like the 30-30 vs the 7.62x39 they really aren't all that different.

Again the way I see it both cartridges are a 150 yard and closer for medium game. And inside that distance there isn't that much difference.
 
Used both killing deer out to 250-300 on multiple occasions. Both are far more capable than most give them credit - including in this thread. Finding good ammo for the x39, or good bullets, is easier than it used to be, but still far easier in the dirty thirty. The difference in killing between a round nosed 150-180 in the 30 vs. a 120-130 Spitzer in the x39 is noticeable, but if a guy were to say one really killed better than the other, it’s only because they prefer one of the rifles more than the other, or because they only considered paper ballistics, and that preference would not be because of some objective difference in killing performance.
 
When it comes to killing game it's not just about trajectory. It's also about retained energy and energy is what required to take down game NOT trajectory. I understand the differences between a .308 and a 300 Win Mag.

When looking at the energy numbers of the intermediate rifle cartridges like the 30-30 vs the 7.62x39 they really aren't all that different.

Again the way I see it both cartridges are a 150 yard and closer for medium game. And inside that distance there isn't that much difference.
I beg to differ, it’s about a combination of things. Trajectory, retained energy, and bullet performance. The state of the game animal also plays a part.

The trajectory is flatter because the bullet is going faster therefore the bullet will have more energy. Since it is the same bullet, your argument falls apart. Actually none of the 3 cartridges I mentioned in my previous thread would be a good choice for deer as they have FMJ bullets, and while the energy figures would be the same as a similar expanding the bullet would pencil right through. I guess I could figure the velocity based on trajectory and give energy figures, but that’s a lot of trouble just to prove a fact. (My chrono attaches to the barrel, I can’t shoot through it at extended range)

I also base my views on personal observation. I limit out on venison every year, plus whatever the state allows us for depredation. That’s the advantage of having a working farm, or disadvantage, depending on your view. I have observed the reaction of many deer when shot with these cartridges. I usually carry the AAC Handi Rifle. It’s a short rifle and convenience means a lot. It does, however, suck as a longer range deer rifle. The 7.62x39 is right behind it. Why I said in an earlier reply they start losing their glory once the ranges start exceeding 100 yards. The 30-30 I really do not carry much, the 300 BLK rides on the tractor, the American Ranch is my favorite woods rifle, although I have started carrying the 450 BM regularly. I only use the 30-30 to shoot out of the barn loft. The field behind the barn offers shots up to 200 yards.

So which is my favorite deer rifle? Neither. I shoot a 280 Remington. It obviously is more capable than the others.

The view from my front porch. If you look into the tree line you can see my stand. While I have never had to shoot a deer that far, it does offer clear shots out to just over 600 yards.
upload_2019-1-19_14-7-26.jpeg
 
I have killed deer with all three, rem md 7, 300 BK- 125gr NBT, ruger 77, 7.62x39-125gr NBT and H&R handy, 30-30 with 125 gr NBT. all under 100 yards with standing double lung shots and they all acted just about the same, no much of a tracking job.
 

Attachments

  • DSCN1225 (2).JPG
    DSCN1225 (2).JPG
    155.8 KB · Views: 19
  • DSCN1226 (2).JPG
    DSCN1226 (2).JPG
    225.3 KB · Views: 18
  • DSCN1227 (2).JPG
    DSCN1227 (2).JPG
    160.6 KB · Views: 20
There are very few places where I live that I can shoot over 100 yards without hitting the side of a hill.
I really like my Ruger Ranch Rifles. The 7.62x39 is very accurate. It shoots the cheap Tulammo I have into nice 1.5’ groups at 100 yards. It will shoot my 125 grain reloads into cloverleaf groups at 100 yards. It will do you a fine job for what you are wanting.

I want to be clear, I do like the 7.62x39. It has a record for being inaccurate, but that’s not true. In the right platform it is a very accurate cartridge. The PPC cartridges are grandchildren of the 7.62x39, as is the Grendel, and you know from the other forum how much I like the Grendel. I just have this thing about inaccuracies. I guess maybe that the 30-30 is one of my 3 favorite cartridges makes me want to point out the inaccuracies. The other two being the 22 Hornet and the 45-70. I especially like the K-Hornet and the 30-30 AI, but that’s for another discussion.

I do not know what rifle you are looking at, but I can recommend the Ruger Ranch.
 
I have killed deer with all three, rem md 7, 300 BK- 125gr NBT, ruger 77, 7.62x39-125gr NBT and H&R handy, 30-30 with 125 gr NBT. all under 100 yards with standing double lung shots and they all acted just about the same, no much of a tracking job.
They are all good cartridges. I have never had a deer struck with the 30-30 make it out of the field behind the barn though, I have had deer hit with the 300 BLK and 7.62x39 make it out of the field, but barely. All we recovered. And the ones that did make it out of the field were all shot at over 100 yards.
 
I killed two WV white tails with my x39 this year. Both at short range. My only problem is that I only hunt with copper, and the only x39 I could find in copper is $45 a box.

I’m still refining my reloads. So far, the .308 Barnes 120 tac tx shoots 2700fps and sub moa from my .311 bore. The x39 has replaced the .300blk as my short range/backup deer round.
 
I have a savage bolt action 30-30 model 840. With my own loads it will shoot 1 1/2 inch or better at 100 yards. I also have a Marlin 30-30 that shoots about the same. I'd go with the 30-30. hdbiker
 
I hunt with neither.
Figure the cartridges close enough that I'd let rifle type/features decide.
 
I recently watched a video of Russian Wildlife officers hunting a man eating Siberian Tiger. Always curious about guns I noticed what they were carrying military SKS carbines & 7.62X39 military ammo (full metal jacket). This tiger was big, much bigger than any deer or hog. When they caught up with it the tiger charged one of the guys & ripped his jacket before it was shot several times. The 7.62X39 did the job. If the 30-30 & the 7.62X39 are similar I don't think anybody that hunts deer or hogs w/either one has anything to worry about.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top