Matthew Clark
Member
I realize that this has probably been debated before but I didn't find anything in a quick search that contained the main topic of this post. Several fellow hunters have complained to me about the 150gr FN offering from Sierra bullets #2000 not performing to their satisfaction in their 30-30win lever guns. Especially right after deer season this year.
I must say that when questioned "was the deer in question recovered" all answered yes. This is a +, no lost game. My next question was, "At exactly what point in the animals death did your bullet fail to do it's job?" My answers recieved ranged from the deer ran 75yds before collapsing to the bullet didn't exit the off side.
As you can imagine I would have liked to have known shot placement on the deer that ran. Also load data and muzzle velocity on the non exiting loads as well as shot angle and penetration depth would be nice to know. Size of the recovered deer were around 200lb. In all instances.
I was able to deduce that all complaints had two common denominators, Leverevolution powder was used by all individuals who had complaints as well as the #2000 bullet. The 150gr. FN Sierra bullet. Hmmmmmm..........
I personally have not used the 30-30win with Leverevolution to take a deer as of yet. My personal load consists of 37.5gr. Leverevolution under a Sierra 150gr. RN bullet #2135, WLR primer for 2420fps. from a Marlin 336cs MG barrel and 2435fps. from a 94 Winnie. I have done extensive expansion and penetration test in different medium with this load because my bullet of choice is not a 30-30 bullet per se by Sierra's listing. I wanted to insure proper bullet upset and penetration at 30-30 distances and velocity with the Leverevolution powder. My reasoning was that the thicker jacket would work under the higher velocities obtained with leverevolution powder.
I'm not saying the old 30-30 bullets won't work, I didn't want a FN or a polymer tip. I wanted something else, and I got it. That bullet performs exceptionally well in all testing out to 150yds. In the load I have developed for my rifles. Next year I'll give it a try on game. Hopefully I won't be complaining next year but I think I'm going to be very pleased with performance.
On to my fellow hunters complaints.
As an OCD relief I did some testing for my friends. I can't let conundrums go. Using my rifles, Leverevolution powder at 38gr. in all test loads (.5gr. Under max) because most likely these folks were reading their conograph more than measuring their groups looking for the Velocity Nazi high!
And I bought some #2000 150gr. FN seconds at the Sierra store. I'm lucky enough to live about 3 miles from the plant. (If you saw how they cull seconds you wouldn't have a problem using them. All my jacketed bullets are Sierra seconds and sub MOA is no problem. ) I loaded up and did same tests i ran with the 150gr. RN.
At a nominal 100yds with only water jugs for medium to trap the bullets some light was shed on this subject. The FN sierra 150's were less than fantastic by most people's standards of what a bullet should look like when recovered. They were not perfect mushrooms, more like pieces of scrap floating in water. This test is by no means definitive that this bullet will fail. It was for my personal curiosity. The famed Nosler BT doesn't hold together either and deer give up the gohst to it all the time. I wouldn't let that deter me from using them , they kill deer and have done so for years. The increased velocity does seem to have an effect on the bullet, but an animal can only be killed so dead. Perfect recovered bullets are just pretty as far as I'm concerned. Terminal tissue damage and leaky holes are more important to me.
I informed my fellow hunters of my results, inconclusive as they are. Then of course the RN bullet issue in a tube mag became topic! Good grief these guys will make me grow old. RN bullets have been loaded in factory 30-30win ammo for years. If they frighten you don't use them.
With a primered only case in a vice and safety apparel adorned, I personally held a RN Sierra bullet #2135 in a pair of pliers and put it firmly against the primered case and beat the crap out of it with a hammer until the bullet was so deformed I started laughing. No primer detonation, didn't even dent it. Do what makes you happy on that subject.
From what I have seen here, it is possible that hunter/reloaders using Leverevolution powder with increased velocities might want to consider using a little tougher bullet than the old flat nose designed for velocities of less technology. The techs at Sierra claim the jacket on the 170 FN is thicker than the 150 RN that was designed for velocities above 2500fps. Maybe harder lead in the 150 RN, WHO KNOWS! Point is, I don't think the fellows had a real complaint but they wouldn't let it go if I didn't have some kind of answer, inconclusive as the results were. I listened and tried, they now have a mission in their minds to fix a nonexistent problem. That'll keep them busy for a while. Lol!
Happy shooting!
I also posted this in the reloading threads.
I must say that when questioned "was the deer in question recovered" all answered yes. This is a +, no lost game. My next question was, "At exactly what point in the animals death did your bullet fail to do it's job?" My answers recieved ranged from the deer ran 75yds before collapsing to the bullet didn't exit the off side.
As you can imagine I would have liked to have known shot placement on the deer that ran. Also load data and muzzle velocity on the non exiting loads as well as shot angle and penetration depth would be nice to know. Size of the recovered deer were around 200lb. In all instances.
I was able to deduce that all complaints had two common denominators, Leverevolution powder was used by all individuals who had complaints as well as the #2000 bullet. The 150gr. FN Sierra bullet. Hmmmmmm..........
I personally have not used the 30-30win with Leverevolution to take a deer as of yet. My personal load consists of 37.5gr. Leverevolution under a Sierra 150gr. RN bullet #2135, WLR primer for 2420fps. from a Marlin 336cs MG barrel and 2435fps. from a 94 Winnie. I have done extensive expansion and penetration test in different medium with this load because my bullet of choice is not a 30-30 bullet per se by Sierra's listing. I wanted to insure proper bullet upset and penetration at 30-30 distances and velocity with the Leverevolution powder. My reasoning was that the thicker jacket would work under the higher velocities obtained with leverevolution powder.
I'm not saying the old 30-30 bullets won't work, I didn't want a FN or a polymer tip. I wanted something else, and I got it. That bullet performs exceptionally well in all testing out to 150yds. In the load I have developed for my rifles. Next year I'll give it a try on game. Hopefully I won't be complaining next year but I think I'm going to be very pleased with performance.
On to my fellow hunters complaints.
As an OCD relief I did some testing for my friends. I can't let conundrums go. Using my rifles, Leverevolution powder at 38gr. in all test loads (.5gr. Under max) because most likely these folks were reading their conograph more than measuring their groups looking for the Velocity Nazi high!
And I bought some #2000 150gr. FN seconds at the Sierra store. I'm lucky enough to live about 3 miles from the plant. (If you saw how they cull seconds you wouldn't have a problem using them. All my jacketed bullets are Sierra seconds and sub MOA is no problem. ) I loaded up and did same tests i ran with the 150gr. RN.
At a nominal 100yds with only water jugs for medium to trap the bullets some light was shed on this subject. The FN sierra 150's were less than fantastic by most people's standards of what a bullet should look like when recovered. They were not perfect mushrooms, more like pieces of scrap floating in water. This test is by no means definitive that this bullet will fail. It was for my personal curiosity. The famed Nosler BT doesn't hold together either and deer give up the gohst to it all the time. I wouldn't let that deter me from using them , they kill deer and have done so for years. The increased velocity does seem to have an effect on the bullet, but an animal can only be killed so dead. Perfect recovered bullets are just pretty as far as I'm concerned. Terminal tissue damage and leaky holes are more important to me.
I informed my fellow hunters of my results, inconclusive as they are. Then of course the RN bullet issue in a tube mag became topic! Good grief these guys will make me grow old. RN bullets have been loaded in factory 30-30win ammo for years. If they frighten you don't use them.
With a primered only case in a vice and safety apparel adorned, I personally held a RN Sierra bullet #2135 in a pair of pliers and put it firmly against the primered case and beat the crap out of it with a hammer until the bullet was so deformed I started laughing. No primer detonation, didn't even dent it. Do what makes you happy on that subject.
From what I have seen here, it is possible that hunter/reloaders using Leverevolution powder with increased velocities might want to consider using a little tougher bullet than the old flat nose designed for velocities of less technology. The techs at Sierra claim the jacket on the 170 FN is thicker than the 150 RN that was designed for velocities above 2500fps. Maybe harder lead in the 150 RN, WHO KNOWS! Point is, I don't think the fellows had a real complaint but they wouldn't let it go if I didn't have some kind of answer, inconclusive as the results were. I listened and tried, they now have a mission in their minds to fix a nonexistent problem. That'll keep them busy for a while. Lol!
Happy shooting!
I also posted this in the reloading threads.
