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In a recent thread on the hunting section, I intended to ask about .200 gr bullets for use in 357 Mag for hunting purposes, but I had a typo and typed 300 gr instead.
I was pleasantly surprised that the people on the thread didn't judge the idea (which is why I love this forum) but instead took the idea seriously and gave some honest thoughts.
Someone posted a link to this
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2...caliber-359-diameter-300-grain-lead-flat-nose
Now it's got me thinking, why not try a 300 gr 357 Mag load?
It's been a long time since my Vaquero has had a good challenge.
However this is reloading, and safety and caution are our priorities. We should load at our own risk, and know what we're doing. Since most of us here are already experienced reloaders, I think any of us who have at least over a year in reloading can give this a try.
We're not doing this to be dangerous, we're doing this because 1. we can, and 2. Why not?

For my 300 gr loads, I'm thinking my best bet is my homemade black powder. It compresses under everything. And the more compressed it is, the more powerful it is. I'm going to fill the 357 mag case halfway full of my black powder, then seat the bullet. If the finished cartridge fits the chambers and the cylinder revolves fine, then it's to the range.
I will always bring a rod and a hammer to the range when testing reloads.
 
Using Quickloads I simulated a 1.25 inch long 300 gr bullet seated to 1.65 inch over all length in a case with a capacity of 26.2 gr H2O. I had Quickloads try every powder that would fit and stay under 35,000 psi. Nothing got much over 400 fps. There is just so little room left with a bullet that long. Not many revolvers will let you seat much longer than 1.65.
 
The only two powders I trust is either Black powder or Blue dot, as both favor compression. But it would be too easy to over compress blue dot, I don't know the compression properties of it. Thank you for your effort with Quickloads.
I think the objective here is to create a load which albeit would be slow at 400 fps, is still doable and does get the bullet reliably out the barrel. The only practical use I can think of is if you just ran out of bullets for your .357 Magnum, so you decide to use some of the bullets from your .358 Wnchester.
I'm going to be using this in a Ruger, which typically have generous OAL in the chambers.
 
https://www.pennbullets.com/38/38-caliber.html

70 grains short of your target weight, but looks like they're getting these into the 800-900fps range with AA9 in .38SPL cases. Edit link only partially copied, you have to scroll down to the 230 gr Thunderhead to see the data.

If we decide the 300 grains aren't a good idea (as they would cause bulging) I think using these would be a proven substitute. Honestly much better than a 300 gr bullet traveling at <400 fps anyway, and would serve practical use.
 
A part of me hates going out to 'test' reloads, but when it's something like this that is totally bizarre and is honestly curious, I do love it. And I almost feel obligated to, because we gotta know what would happen. What are the consequences, Any dangers, Does it work? etc. This is the scientific view point. Do stuff that even if it puts you at risk, you do it so nobody else has to and so everybody else benefits from the knowledge. But in doing this, I do put myself at risk. I only did a scientific experiement with bizarre stuff like this once, and that was h110 in a milsurp. Found out that h110 is not a usable rifle powder.
I'm thinking with 13 grains of black powder compressed under that 300 grain bullet , it'll shoot and exit the barrel just fine. At the worse, I'm pretty sure it just won't go off, or even have a long hang fire because of not enough oxygen in the chamber but then I realize that every muzzeloader mechanism technically has no oxygen in the chamber aside from what was already added when it was seated with a bullet.
 
A part of me hates going out to 'test' reloads, but when it's something like this that is totally bizarre and is honestly curious, I do love it. And I almost feel obligated to, because we gotta know what would happen. What are the consequences, Any dangers, Does it work? etc. This is the scientific view point. Do stuff that even if it puts you at risk, you do it so nobody else has to and so everybody else benefits from the knowledge. But in doing this, I do put myself at risk. I only did a scientific experiement with bizarre stuff like this once, and that was h110 in a milsurp. Found out that h110 is not a usable rifle powder.
I'm thinking with 13 grains of black powder compressed under that 300 grain bullet , it'll shoot and exit the barrel just fine. At the worse, I'm pretty sure it just won't go off, or even have a long hang fire because of not enough oxygen in the chamber but then I realize that every muzzeloader mechanism technically has no oxygen in the chamber aside from what was already added when it was seated with a bullet.

Higher SD than a 400gr .416. I don't see how it would have any useful application. It would be comparable to a 430gr .44 or a 475gr .45. Not gonna work. Would need a lot more velocity and a lot faster twist rate for those to stabilize.

I agree with Craig's post on functionality, and effectiveness.

On the flip side, I do stuff like this from time to time. And tho I can't offer any advice. Actually maybe I can, you may want to take a look at 800x. I've done some pretty dumb stuff with that one and it's been pretty forgiving.

I wish you luck on your experiment. Just becareful and stay safe!


Speaking of 800x. ImI'm actual going to see how many "sensible?" loadings an old inline can take before it comes apart, mostly because I've never gotten a good explanation of WHY smokeless causes failures.
I'm assuming it's something to do with compression, poor gas sealing, or flame cutting.

Anyway, have fun, stay safe!
 
357 Max would be a better cartridge to try this with.

Buying a 44 mag is a better solution.

Better, sure, but what is the fun in that? :D If we can put a 200 gr bullet in a 38 S&W we should be able to put a 300gr bullet in 357 Mag. In a single shot it would be no problem but the revolver makes this a challenge since OAL is limited.

I think I must have fat-fingered the keyboard on Quickloads yesterday in my haste. I re-ran it this morning and I am getting better numbers. Again a 1.25 inch long 300 gr bullet seated to 1.65 inch over all length in a case with a capacity of 26.2 gr H2O. 2.7gr of Power Pistol is a 100% full usable volume and will give us just over 600 fps with a five inch barrel and still only slightly over 30,000 psi pressure.

If we bump the OAL up to 1.7 inches that both an N-frame and Ruger Redhawk support though most N-frame 357 Mag cylinders are shorter than that we could push a 300 gr bullet to just over 700 fps with 3.4 gr of Power Pistol but pressure is now at 35,000 psi.

A quick and dirty CAD model of a .357 diameter cylinder 1.25 inch long with a hemispherical round end is predicted to weight 330gr with pure lead. By the time we alloy that, add some lub-groves and maybe reduce a large portion of the nose down to bore diameter instead of grove diameter I think the weight would be about right.

A quick plug into Berger's twist rate calculator (a bit more sophisticated than the old Greener formula) say that a 300gr bullet 1.25 inch long going 600 fps is marginally stable from a typical 1: 16 twist 357 mag revolver.

**All the usual caveats that this is Quickloads and would need a lot more ground work laid and testing to make these numbers real.
 
Looks like 800x and Power Pistols our best bet..
I'm planning on buying Unique soon for 38 special and 9mm, because of versitility. Is 800x and Power pistol optiminal for those two calibers as well? I might spent my money on 800x instead of Unique if it's just as usable in 9mm and 38 spl
 
A part of me hates going out to 'test' reloads, but when it's something like this that is totally bizarre and is honestly curious, I do love it. And I almost feel obligated to, because we gotta know what would happen. What are the consequences, Any dangers, Does it work? etc. This is the scientific view point. Do stuff that even if it puts you at risk, you do it so nobody else has to and so everybody else benefits from the knowledge. But in doing this, I do put myself at risk. I only did a scientific experiement with bizarre stuff like this once, and that was h110 in a milsurp. Found out that h110 is not a usable rifle powder.
I'm thinking with 13 grains of black powder compressed under that 300 grain bullet , it'll shoot and exit the barrel just fine. At the worse, I'm pretty sure it just won't go off, or even have a long hang fire because of not enough oxygen in the chamber but then I realize that every muzzeloader mechanism technically has no oxygen in the chamber aside from what was already added when it was seated with a bullet.

H110 works just fine in the 30 carbine, but I guess that is a carbine and not a "rifle"
 
Looks like 800x and Power Pistols our best bet..
I'm planning on buying Unique soon for 38 special and 9mm, because of versitility. Is 800x and Power pistol optiminal for those two calibers as well? I might spent my money on 800x instead of Unique if it's just as usable in 9mm and 38 spl

Never tried 800-x in either of those cartridges (don't currently own a 9mm). I love 800-x in heavy 10mm and 44 Mag. Unfortunately 800-x has never been included in Quickloads for some reason.
 
Big round flakes. It does not meter well but if your willing to weigh each load its great for magnum loads.
Because it sounds to be a ball powder, doesn't seem to be well suited for 9mm. I don't mind having to measure individually.
I'm sticking to the instinct the only two ball powders I'll use are WSF and Bluedot. I think I'll use power pistol for 9mm and 38 spl Snub, and for this 300 gr experiment
 
I've never been a fan of ultra-heavy bullets in handguns. The heaviest I've used in .38spl/.357mag is a 165 grain SWC GC. Both accuracy and velocity were high. Full, but not over, charges of 2400 were used. The full charge rounds are only fired in S&W "N" frames while the midrange loads are reserved for "K" frame S&W and Colt Python. Low velocities and high pressures can result with double weight bullets.
 
Because it sounds to be a ball powder, doesn't seem to be well suited for 9mm. I don't mind having to measure individually.
I'm sticking to the instinct the only two ball powders I'll use are WSF and Bluedot. I think I'll use power pistol for 9mm and 38 spl Snub, and for this 300 gr experiment

Powder_0000102.jpg

It's a flake powder, not a ball or stick powder. It started life as a heavy payload shotgun powder and was found to be a good Magnum pistol powder. Hodgdon's online database does not have any 38 Special or +P loads but it does have several 9mm loads utilizing 800-x.

I've never been a fan of ultra-heavy bullets in handguns. The heaviest I've used in .38spl/.357mag is a 165 grain SWC GC. Both accuracy and velocity were high. Full, but not over, charges of 2400 were used. The full charge rounds are only fired in S&W "N" frames while the midrange loads are reserved for "K" frame S&W and Colt Python. Low velocities and high pressures can result with double weight bullets.

I love heavy for caliber. My 38/200 reloading replicating the original Mk I load.

5lh5mIql.jpg
 
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Those are nice 38/200s. The British military revolvers are interesting, but life's never lead me to collect them.
I'm sticking with Power Pistol then. I hope there's some snubby loads for it.
 
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