357mag, 158gr, Gas Check Question.

[fourdollarbill]

I'm not new to reloading but I'm new to gas checks.

For target I use 158gr lswc straight WW.
For anything faster I always used jacketed 125, 158 and 180's.

Now I would like to quit buying jacketed bullets period and start casting 158gr lswc w/gas check.

How fast can a straight WW cast 158 W/GC go without problems?

I'm not so worried about leading as I have mastered the art of lead removal . My concern is bullet function, damage, etc...

 

[rcmodel]

If the bullet is sized to fit the cylinder throats.
Faster then you can get them to go in a .357.

rc

 

[Ben Shepherd]

W/gas checks and the proper lube and alloy, easily above 2,000, it's done in rifles quite frequently.

If you're going to get into casting, get a copy of Lymans "Cast Bullet Handbook" and read it twice cover to cover BEFORE spending any money on equipment.

I will also note that non-gas checked water dropped straight cast wheel weights, properly sized, and with a good lube do 1550 for me with no leading to speak of........

Edit: Dangit RC, can I EVER get something in first anymore? Sheesh!

 

[Walkalong]

Me third. Nope, no need for gas checks.... Fit the bullet to the throats, and, assuming the throats are not undersized to the bore, there won't be a problem.

 

[fourdollarbill]

I have cast for a long time without knowing the hardness of straight WW. I had never known you can push a properly sized and lubed WW bullet over 900 fps without a bunch of lead build up. I size to .358 as a norm but have never slugged my barrels. I would assume if the slugging measures tight then I would size to .357 or so.

Wait now i'm confused! I thought the softer the alloy the slower and fatter you should go. Now I'm hearing. Size it properly, Lube it, and then you can shoot it at magnum speeds. I thought the bullet had to be above L#2 alloy to size it smaller and go faster.

Not arguing, just thinking out loud.

I'm going to try it but I have mixed nerves about putting an H110 under a WW home cast properly sized and lubed bullet. I can just picture the bullet melting like a candle on the way out the barrel.

Other than the typical slugging the barrel is there different method of measuring for this specific request?

 

[rcmodel]

For a revolver, don't worry about the barrel.
What you have to have is bullets sized to fit the cylinder throats.

Lets say you have a revolver with a .357" barrel and .359" throats.
You want .359" bullets.

Or flame cutting & gas leakage in the cylinder will melt the sides off the bullets and cause leading you will simply not believe.
The bullet will swage down in the forcing cone to fit the smaller bore without any pressure problems.

As for bullet hardness?
Phil Sharp & Doug Wesson developed the .357 Magnum using plain base bullets of about BHN 10.

Elmer Keith developed the hot .44 Spl loads that resulted in the .44 Magnum using bullets of the same hardness. He later switched to bullets with a BNH of 11 in the .44 Magnum.

Wheelweight metal runs between 9 - 11 right out of the mold.

If you use a flat-base (not bevel-base) bullet sized to fit the cylinder throats, and good lube, you can likely get all the performance you want using wheel-weight metal with very little if any leading.

rc

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Note I said water dropped. That makes the difference in the speed ceiling for me, they're just enough harder that way. Straight cast has about a 1400ish ceiling, water dropped goes 1550 no trouble.

Also, individual bore condition can make a HUGE difference in obtainable speeds without trouble.

And as a last note: Do use 2400. It is more "proper" in this application. Start out at about 13.5 and work up 'til you're happy with it.

 

[fourdollarbill]

RC thank you, that was a perfect explanation and it even made sense to me .

Ben, I never dared pushing a WW cast 1400 fps I was always content with 900+-. Thank you for that info.

I make the assumption that a gas checked 158gr lswc sized to .358 will work just fine too.

 

[David Wile]

Hey folks,

I grew up with gas checks on all my rifle bullets and on my .357 and .44 Mag pistol bullets. If I could get a gas check mould for my 10mm, I would do it. After 50 years, I don't think I will change my mind much on the value of gas checks.

For my .357 Mag, I use the Lyman 158 grain gas checked Ray Thompson designed mould. It is the same four cavity mould I purchased back about 1960, and it still works like new.

In the past year and a half, however, I have made one change in my gas checks. I have switched to making my own gas checks from aluminum soda cans, and they perform the same as the copper gas checks I previously bought from Hornady and Lyman. I now make my own gas checks in .30, .357, .44, and .45 calibers. Yes, it takes time to make my gas checks, but it also takes time for me to cast my bullets and do the whole reloading thing. I have a friend who casts his bullets, but he thinks using gas checks is not worth his time. I keep telling him that if gas checks are not worth his time, then casting bullets and reloading them are probably not worth his time either. Neither of us win that argument, but we keep it up.

With the gas check tool sets I have, I can sit in my recliner chair and make gas checks while watching TV. Not too bad.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

 

[GP100man]

4$ bill

i have a 358156 sc hp mold & i had the gas check removed & i love it but mostly my GPs love it !!

i don`t own a chronograph but i can load em up to 14.0 grs. of 2400 & no lead NADA
i air cooled these & cast em from some isotope lead (10.4 bhn) & a 9to 1 wheel weight finished bhn was 12.2 lubed with White Labels Lubes Carnauba Red sized to .3585.

i have an old 357446 that i can max out with either 2400 or h110. this boolit looks just like the 358156 except it has 2 lube grooves & 1 crimp groove!

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Educated guess here:

i don`t own a chronograph but i can load em up to 14.0 grs. of 2400

I would darn near bet you lunch that you're running 25 fps one side or the other of 1350 if you're running a 6 inch tube. Higher end if a ruger, lower end if a smith, and with a colt, I could be way off, haven't chrono'd them near enough to claim "educated" status.

 

[GP100man]

Ben

the article i read on doing this to the 358156 was chronographed & the project gun was a smith mod 15 6" & the boolit was 1325 at 13.5 grs. 2400

i`m shootin a GP100 6" & the boolit weighs 147.5grs in hp form so fps ??

point is with the knowledge converging on the net & alot of trial & error theres no reason to keep lead subsonic!!

 

[Bula]

I cast 4 .358 types of bullets, the 358429, 358495, 358156 the lee 158-RNFP--All sized to .358. The only time I use checks is with the 358156, for my carbine. All the above advice is solid, they aren't really necessary for pistols. That Lee puts bullets into a big'ol pile quick, but the 358429 drops a 172 grain plain based SWC and is my favorite pistol bullet. 2400 is that way to go-as mentioned above. Good luck and let us know how things work out.

 

[fourdollarbill]

Well I finaly had a chance to try em'. I loaded 100 164gr LSWC GC with cci550's.
I skipped the 2400 for now as I wanted to see these results.
H110 loads

• 10-14gr H110
• 10-14.5gr
• 10-15gr
• 10-15.5gr
• 10-16gr

Lil'Gun loads

• 10-15.5gr LG
• 10-16gr
• 10-16.5gr
• 10-17gr
• 10-17.5gr

The H110 was all over the paper until 15.5gr and it grouped to 1.5" @ 75yds then at 16gr they got loose again to about 3"+.
The Lil'Gun was also 6"+ on the paper until 17.5gr max load and it tightened up to 2" but they were almost perfectly horizontal from each other. (.....)
Grant it my trigger is an oem and not so great but I thought this was pretty good.
No speeds recorded, I was afraid to blast my friends Chrono with a flyer.

Have you guys tried anything like this? I'm guessing this would make a good hunting round. And to think I could have used these gas checked bullets years ago I would have saved a ton on bullets.

 

[twice barrel]

Used to load with gas checks on 44mag for my Browning 92 leveractions until I found not using them made no difference at all. Same bullet, just omitted the gas check.

Just add a little tin to your lead and avoid the antimony as much as possible.

TB

 

[fecmech]

Nothing wrong with gas checks and 358156, great design and great shooter. That said imo it just adds expense and time to the whole process. Plain base bullets such as 358429 will work just fine and match 358156 in the accuracy dept. I run WC820 which is a surplus powder similar to AA9/win 296 and load to about 1300 fps out of my gp 100 6" and the same load out of the rifle runs 1650 fps. I use water dropped wheel wt metal and a good lube. The pistol will group under 2" @50 yds off the bench and the rifle averages 3-4" at 100 yds. I won't win any bench rest matches with the guns but if the hold is good the target gets hit.