38 Special how hot?

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planetmobius

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Just came into a massive pile of 38 Special brass. I don't own a designated 38 Special so will be shooting these exclusively from my 357's. How hot can I reload these cases and what's a good 38+P+ load. I would like to assemble a bunch with 125 gr jhp.
 
What powders are available to you ?
It is never a good idea to load 38spl beyond +P as these loads may find themselves in a gun chambered for 38spl.
Perhaps you could trade some 38spl brass for 357 mag.
 
From what I've read, when the .357mag was developed the only reason they made the casings bigger was so that .357 ammo wouldn't chamber in a .38spl. And supposedly they came up with .357 using .38spl brass in revolvers that were built on heavier .44 frames. So if that's correct you could in theory create .38spl rounds with .357mag pressures safely as long as they're only fired in .357 capable firearms. But having said that I would suggest sticking to .38spl data. Lee 2nd Edition manual has .38spl +P data that should be suitable for use in .357mag chambered firearms if you want to load ammo "hotter" than typical .38spl. If you do so just make sure you keep those rounds seperate and clearly marked from to avoid catastrophe. But personally, I'd just save my self the trouble and use .357 brass. It would help avoid getting any +P ammo mixed in with standard .38spl loads.
 
Dan Wesson 15-1
Ruger Blackhawk
Ruger Security Six
S&W model 27

All 357's. I don't own a 38.
 
Well with 4 .357 revolvers, surely you have some .357 brass laying around right? A "hot" .38spl is essentially a light .357 load. I just don't see the reason to risk chancing a shooting buddy (assuming you have some, most people do) picking up one of your hot loads by mistake and putting it in their .38. It's your call but what you're asking about truly is the same as a light .357 load, I just don't see the point. For ME, .38spl (non +P) is for paper punching, .357 is for when you need it dead right now.
 
What is the "purpose" of +P+ loads? As mentioned if you need those than move on up to 357 Mag.

Most manuals and online powder web sites have 38+P data.

Duplication of the FBI "Load" was with 158 gr LSWCHP which are real thumpers, you can get more velocity with 125 gr bullets.

Max loads of slower powders will give you a start.
 
WARNING - The following data exceeds published maximum - WARNING

My favorite 38 spcl. +P+ load is either a 125 gr. JHP or 110 gr. JHP XTP with a worked up charge of Longshot that exceeds the published maximum as follows:

110 gr. XTP - 8.6 grs. Longshot - CCI-500 - firm roll crimp The published maximum is 7.6 grs.

125 gr. XTP - 8.1 grs. Longshot - CCI-500 - firm roll crimp The published maximum is 7.0 grs.

I shoot this load out of my .357's only! Having worked up to this load from the published maximums, easily took me to the above charges with no issues at all. I do stress though, that every firearm is different and just because these load worked fine in my firearms, doesn't mean they will function normal in your firearms, so always work up. Also, Hogdon doesn't publish any standard load data using Longshot that I have yet discovered for 38 spcl., and that the only published data they provide is in fact +P.

GS
 
What is the "purpose" of +P+ loads?
Click to expand...

The only commercial +P+ .38 Special ammunition that I'm aware of is the old 110 grain "Treasury Load" that hasn't been produced in about 30 years...and chronograph testing in a 4-inch Model 10 didn't show it to be all that hot. If memory serves me, the velocities were around 1100 fps, and about 1050 in a 4-inch Model 13.

As to why, I don't have a clue. The feds often make mystery decisions.
 
Stay safe and stick with published data. I shoot my .38 Special reloads in 3 different revolvers including a 686 in .357 Mag. and a 638 that is in fact +P rated. My Square D press is much more fun when not loading rounds that are pistol specific.
 
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It is generally, IMHO, a bad idea to overload .38 Spl brass regardless of the fact the brass can take more pressure than .38 spl levels due to the fact the reloads could end up in .38 Spl guns, and in particular, weak .38 Spl guns. This could happen any number of ways.

That said, if you choose to do so, be sure to label the ammunition carefully so that anyone finding them would be well advised not to shoot them in .38 Spl guns.

But me, I would buy/trade for .357 brass. Folks would love to buy or trade for that .38 Spl brass.
 
My understanding of .38spl.+P ammo and + P ammo in general is that it is at the high limit of its caliber as rated by SAAMI. So .38spl.+P is just "hot" .38spl. ammo. The reason for this is that ammo manufacturers load ammo to low or low to mid range SAAMI spec.'s in consideration of the fact that there are many guns of any given caliber out there in a variety of conditions and strengths. Loading to the lower end makes it safer for all of these different guns.
 
1911Tuner said:
The only commercial +P+ .38 Special ammunition that I'm aware of is the old 110 grain "Treasury Load" that hasn't been produced in about 30 years...and chronograph testing in a 4-inch Model 10 didn't show it to be all that hot. If memory serves me, the velocities were around 1100 fps, and about 1050 in a 4-inch Model 13.

As to why, I don't have a clue. The feds often make mystery decisions.
Click to expand...


It was more of a rhetorical question as why does one need or want to exceed the pressure limits by so much?:) JMO but it serves no purpose.

There are lots of threads out there on duplicating "The Load" (different bullet) or as you mention the Treasury load. Buffalo Bore has some "heavy" loads that duplicate the FBI and are brutal out of a snub nose 38.
 
My understanding of .38spl.+P ammo and + P ammo in general is that it is at the high limit of its caliber as rated by SAAMI. So .38spl.+P is just "hot" .38spl. ammo.
Click to expand...

+P is largely a selling point. Today's +P is yesterday's standard .38 Special...so it seems that we've come full circle...back to where we started. The only real difference is better bullets.
 
The Lee manual lists some +P loads for a 125gr XTP that clock in the 1100 ft/s range. If your wanting 1300-1400 range, i would trade 38 brass for 357 brass and use Alliant 2400 and call it a day.
 
Only a point of interest regarding 1911tuner's note about the federal 110 gr loads...

I was a fed back in "The Day" and they handed us boxes of that 110 gr. JHP stuff. I think it was +P+... and get this... I STILL have some of it I do believe. I'll look at the cases. It's all Winchester, marked with a national stock number and it says "not for resale" as I recall. I'll look at it tonight just for fun.

As I recall it was no problem in a .357 frame like a S&W Model 66, but it was not really recommended by Smith in a little J frame Model 60. We qualified with standard .38 Special, but carried the +P+ loads daily. It is/was not as hot as any standard .357 factory load, I can tell you that.
 
RainDodger said:
Only a point of interest regarding 1911tuner's note about the federal 110 gr loads...

I was a fed back in "The Day" and they handed us boxes of that 110 gr. JHP stuff. I think it was +P+... and get this... I STILL have some of it I do believe. I'll look at the cases. It's all Winchester, marked with a national stock number and it says "not for resale" as I recall. I'll look at it tonight just for fun.

As I recall it was no problem in a .357 frame like a S&W Model 66, but it was not really recommended by Smith in a little J frame Model 60. We qualified with standard .38 Special, but carried the +P+ loads daily. It is/was not as hot as any standard .357 factory load, I can tell you that.
Click to expand...

My dad is an old Fed as well and he still has a box of that +P+ in our basement. They used to carry it in .357 magnums not .38's. A friend of my fathers ended up shooting a guy in the arm with that ammo and it actually almost completely severed the guys arm. It's nasty stuff.
 
Ive wondered this myself too. In a 357 mag case using h110/win296, 125, 158gr bullet and loading within the narrow min and max, the powder charge is always right at the base of the seated bullet if not compressed a bit.

Would it be safe to load up a 38 special in this manner(powder charge to base of bullet)? of course for use in a 357 mag only and as walkalong said, should be clearly labeled to avoid someone throwing one in their 38spl.
 
Reefinmike said:
Ive wondered this myself too. In a 357 mag case using h110/win296, 125, 158gr bullet and loading within the narrow min and max, the powder charge is always right at the base of the seated bullet if not compressed a bit.

Would it be safe to load up a 38 special in this manner(powder charge to base of bullet)? of course for use in a 357 mag only and as walkalong said, should be clearly labeled to avoid someone throwing one in their 38spl.
Click to expand...

Only with Trail Boss would I use the fill it up method.:)

There is plenty of old load data out there with slow powders say HS6 which will produce a very snappy 38 special without blowing up.
 
In a large frame revolver specified for .357, get the Lyman 358156 gc mould and cast of #2 alloy. Look up Skeeter Skelton's load for this...uses 2400 in 38 special cases and crimps in the lower of the two crimp grooves. I've shot thousands of these in a 28 Smith, a series of Security Sixes, and a 686. Crisp and accurate. Not for 38 special guns, however.
 
Certaindeaf, thanks I have lots of load data but not a lot of it covers +p and above. Seems to written by guys also of the opinion that it is a bad idea. Nevertheless, putting together a couple of boxes to burn up at the range seems like an interesting experiment. It is an old round. 1902 I believe.
 
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