.38 Special-Reloads, or not? Western wadcutters.

[SingleActionAndrew]

IF I weigh each round, presumably they should be consistently the same and if one weighs between 2.6 and 2.7 grains more than the rest, then likely a double charge?

I’ve never had to weigh loaded rounds before, and so how consistent is the weight between rounds, assuming loaded identically?

I don't think so. New starline cases vary by a few grains a piece. I think your expected variation for weight of brass, bullet and primer together for each cartridge is greater than the expected powder weight and will be truly worthless. I tried to speed up my process of counting cases going into my press and found that if I weighed a couple hundred enpty cases at a time I couldn't confidently estimate how many cases there were on the scale.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

so how consistent is the weight between rounds, assuming loaded identically?

Not at all.

Brass can vary 10gr or more. Cast bullets will vary 3gr and more. The finished cartridges are not going to tell you anything about the powder charge.

Kinetic hammers are cheap. If you don’t already have one, now’s the time to get a couple.

 

[Random 8]

I don't like the looks of that powder. Appears to be in a state of chemical decay, and may do weird things. It is probably Bullseye or something similar lost to the sands of time. The primers and the powder and the cases likely pre-date the advent of "ball" powder. These are OLD. They may or may not be factory. I've seen scoring like that on old ammo, and I've fired a few of the exact Western load linked above, and those cases exibited similar lines from repeated chambering in an old revolver.

If I had them, I might be tempted to fire one or 2 in my Henry Single shot .357 magnum that is built for modern rifle pressures...just as an academic experiment. I don't think I'd get them anywhere near a revolver, even a .357 mag. Also that primer is likely corrosive, so appropriate cleaning methods would have to be used after firing, my main reason for not wishing to fire them in a revolver.

IMHO, since they are a pain to pull, I think the best use of them would be to turn them into your local LE for disposal or bury them deeply in wet soil and let nature take it's course.

 

[orpington]

I had wondered if those were mercuric primers or not. I’d wager they are…or at least might be.

I think I’ll take the other 174 rounds and cut them with the metal snippers and dump the powder and melt the lead the next time I make ingots, which likely will be soon.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I had wondered if those were mercuric primers or not. I’d wager they are…or at least might be.

I think I’ll take the other 174 rounds and cut them with the metal snippers and dump the powder and melt the lead the next time I make ingots, which likely will be soon.

Sounds like a good plan. I still recommend getting a bullet puller/hammer but like any piece of advice it’s worth what you paid for it.

 

[Jim Watson]

Pretty good if, IF, IF, it is all the same lot number of brass. If not, there is more difference in case weight than a target load of powder, and it would be of no value.

Mercuric primers? I don't think mercuric primers were used after WWII. Nor chlorate ("corrosive") primers.
Of course with that bullet style, they might be that old.
The Internet will always find something to worry about.

 

[Rule3]

IF I weigh each round, presumably they should be consistently the same and if one weighs between 2.6 and 2.7 grains more than the rest, then likely a double charge?

I’ve never had to weigh loaded rounds before, and so how consistent is the weight between rounds, assuming loaded identically?

NO! do not do that. It is not a consistent way to weigh ammo. The brass and bullet can vary in weight.

Just get a bullet puller and break them down. If they are really crimped try seating the bullet a little more to break the crimp

Or you can put them in the press with the bullet sticking up through the die and hold on to it with diagonal cutter and pull it out with the ram.

How to pull bullets using cable cutters

Here's a quick and easy way to pull large caliber bullets from cartridges just using a common cable cutter and your reloading press. The process is fast and...

www.youtube.com

 

[Bazoo]

I am glad to learn something, I didn't know that brass would vary that much, even if from the same lot or brand.

 

[orpington]

NO! do not do that. It is not a consistent way to weigh ammo. The brass and bullet can vary in weight.

Just get a bullet puller and break them down. If they are really crimped try seating the bullet a little more to break the crimp

Or you can put them in the press with the bullet sticking up through the die and hold on to it with diagonal cutter and pull it out with the ram.

How to pull bullets using cable cutters

Here's a quick and easy way to pull large caliber bullets from cartridges just using a common cable cutter and your reloading press. The process is fast and...

www.youtube.com

The bullet doesn’t stick out at the top of the press. I had to use needle nose pliers and then depress the plunger—which didn’t work.

 

[Bazoo]

The bullet doesn’t stick out at the top of the press. I had to use needle nose pliers and then depress the plunger—which didn’t work.

You can use a length of metal or pvc pipe over the ram/shell holder for the same effect. The pipe rests against the press frame, and the pliers against the pipe. A 2" long piece should be about right for allowing cartridge insertion without removing the pipe between pulls.

 

[mdi]

Without a second thought, I would pull the bullets, toss the powder and reuse the primed brass. Pulling with an impact puller may be tedious, but you don't have to do all 170+ in one sitting. Do as many as you feel comfortable doing, then put the tools/cartridges away and do some more later. I wouldn't trust weighing loaded rounds, too much variations in component weights. Besides I like reloading and redoing some brass just adds to the fun...

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

My dad used those primers in the 60s. They weren't corrosive.

 

[tmd16556]

The primers aren’t likely corrosive or mercuric. Mercuric primers were rare as reloading components even in the 1920s since they ruined brass.
I have fired loads with those primers. They’re probably from the 1930s to 1950s. The powder may be from that era or loaded a lot later with old primers. I‘d consider shooting them, but single action and watch for squibs. It really comes down to trust level after pulling a few. If any have corrosion, if be more concerned.

 

[orpington]

The primers aren’t likely corrosive or mercuric. Mercuric primers were rare as reloading components even in the 1920s since they ruined brass.
I have fired loads with those primers. They’re probably from the 1930s to 1950s. The powder may be from that era or loaded a lot later with old primers. I‘d consider shooting them, but single action and watch for squibs. It really comes down to trust level after pulling a few. If any have corrosion, if be more concerned.

I seem to be more inclined to scrap them. It’s cheaper than ruining a revolver and the brass isn’t worth saving.

I would be firing this 1919 shipped revolver in the off chance I decided to do it, which seems unlikely.

 

[FROGO207]

Weighing the finished rounds would be a fools errand. Looking for a 2 grain difference is so small that different brands of brass, bullets made in different cavities, or even the lack of lubracating wax on one or more lube rings could be what you are weighing for a difference. As I said before take apart a random sample and if all the pretty much the same I would think that they likely all are the same.
You are overthinking this. Save them to shoot when you buy another 357, give them away, or sell them to someone that's willing to take them apart and reuse what components they can.

 

[orpington]

I’m willing to reuse the free lead, the rest I can dispose of.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

I’m willing to reuse the free lead, the rest I can dispose of.

That sounds like a decision to me.

 

[orpington]

And this is the end result of this thread:

Plus it sure is fun to light up a small mound of the old gunpowder on the front sidewalk with a match.

As I cut each round in two, it was apparent that it’s unlikely that this load was factory, as some did not look like the round I posted, with the bullet partially extended; others were seated into the case in typical wadcutter fashion. Atypical of factory consistency and quality control.

 

[rfwobbly]

You'll never be able to tell anything about the powder weight from weighing the individual finished cartridges. That has been tried here multiple times. There's simply too much variation in the brass case and bullets.

 

[orpington]

You'll never be able to tell anything about the powder weight from weighing the individual finished cartridges. That has been tried here multiple times. There's simply too much variation in the brass case and bullets.

I’ve since ignited all of the powder.

 

[IWAC]

Does this western round appear to be factory or a emreload?

I think the scores in the case longitudinally and the clear demarcation of the end termination of the sizing die suggest this may be a reload. But maybe I’m wrong.

Thoughts?

If factory, I can shoot. If not, then fairly useless to me. View attachment 1202349View attachment 1202349View attachment 1202350View attachment 1202351View attachment 1202352View attachment 1202353

This doesn't appear to be the case's first Rodeo, and I am not familiar with a Wadcutter factory load showing so much of the boolit. Your concern seems to be well-founded!