38 Special vs 357 Magnum - Snub Nose

[Vern Humphrey]

I've only been in two real-life shoot-outs with a handgun, and that was in combat, not in a civilian self-defense setting -- so take my experience for what it's worth.

But my opinion is the most important thing in a shoot-out is to get a hit, FAST!

So shoot your chosen handgun, with your chosen ammo A LOT. If recoil, blast and so on are causing you a problem, then the solution is to reduce the amount of recoil and blast, but NOT to reduce the amount of shooting and practice.

 

[Monster Zero]

Doesn't a steady diet of .38s in a .357 cause leading/erosion issues in the cylinders? I got rid of a H&R Sportsman because someone shot a bazillion shorts through it and created a permanent ring in each chamber.

Nothing a little flitz on a dremel tool won't cure. Next time...

 

[Monster Zero]

I've only been in two real-life shoot-outs with a handgun, and that was in combat, not in a civilian self-defense setting -- so take my experience for what it's worth.

But my opinion is the most important thing in a shoot-out is to get a hit, FAST!

So shoot your chosen handgun, with your chosen ammo A LOT. If recoil, blast and so on are causing you a problem, then the solution is to reduce the amount of recoil and blast, but NOT to reduce the amount of shooting and practice.

I just changed my standard load in my 642 to the 110 grain Silvertip, for that very reason. I've just gotten too recoil sensitive for particularly powerful loads.

OTOH, in my SP101, 2.25" barrel, I carry the BB 158 grain LSWCHP +P. A very convincing round, but it's all I care to shoot in the SP. No need to even test a .357 load in it. I've never fired a .357 load in this SP and I have no plan to. I'm confident in the BB.

(Also I keep a stash of the BB non +P wadcutters so I can load something my wife can handle. She's deadly, but she's even a bit more recoil sensitive than I am.)

Other +P loads, all involving some kind of jacketed hollow points and let's put it this way, being no cheaper than the BB, have been pushed to the back of the ammo shelf.

Bottom line: As you said, get a hit. I'm very happy to take your word for it.

 

[Waveski]

When I carried a J frame I loaded the first round with a magnum and the other four with 38. I figured the first shot was the most important one, so might as well stack the deck in my favor with the more powerful round.

I am having a difficult time with that strategy. The excessive flash , report and recoil resulting from discharging .357 from a 2" (or 1 7/8") barrel all combine to challenge the placement of the subsequent round. .357 as shot #1 would reduce the chances of placing shot #2. Better not miss with that first shot .....

Personally , after spending a lot of time and ammo/money working on being proficient with magnums from a snub , I got rid of my 2 .357 snubs (a model 60 and a SP101) and committed to that which I knew works - .38 special shots on target.
Comfort and confidence leads to rounds on target. Shot placement is everything.

 

[Elkins45]

I actually gave up on carrying a revolver and now carry a Kahr PM9 as my pocket gun.

 

[Old Dog]

My snub of choice for years was a S&W Model 66 w/158 grain JHPs, but I've found the below (with a nice fiber-optic front sight) with some fast moving 125 gr +P or even 158 gr LSWCHP +P to be more a bit more controllable and more accurate. Honestly, I'm not gonna go with any .357 shorter than a 4" barrel or smaller than a K-frame.

 

[RedlegRick]

Nothing a little flitz on a dremel tool won't cure. Next time...

Tried that, no go, that's how deeply engraved those burn rings were. A Smith I took it to told me only fix was a replacement cylinder and I wasn't up for that. Fella from my club took it off my hands for a fair price though.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

Personally I believe whatever you choose you should be able to shoot at least 200 rounds through the gun at one range session. I do not want to shoot 5 rounds out of a 357 snubbie. My favorite is the LCR9mm. I like the ballistics, this side of pleasant before going harsh, little muzzle flash and no where the noise of the 327 or 357 not to mention ammo is cheap.

 

[Jack B.]

For those of you worried about residue left in the cylinder of a .357 magnum by shooting 38 specials in it. Have you ever seen one of these?

 

[earlthegoat2]

With handguns and defensive scenarios, it is not about sheer power so much as it is about being able to shoot 2-3 quick shots accurately.

Handguns (especially defensive and CC handguns) are not powerful enough to reliably produce a one shot stop.

So whichever round/gun gives you the best compromise between speed of deployment, power of cartridge, and multiple shot accuracy should give you a good idea of what is beat for you. I think fast multiple shot accuracy is very important.

 

[golden]

I would go with the HST ammo. It is really impressive in gel and shot well from my revolvers. I want at least a 4 inch barrel in a .357 magnum and a bigger, heavier gun to deal with the recoil.

Jim

 

[CraigC]

I guess I should say that I have no problem at all trading a few hundred feet per second for the much more controllable .38Spl. I don't carry a revolver often because I find compact 9mm autos to be flatter and more concealable but when I do, it's usually a .38Spl 442.

 

[bassjam]

When I had an SP101 I settled on Buffalo Bore .38 sp +p loads. Recoil-wise, they were right in between several .357mag and .38sp +p loads I tried. They were stout, but without all the flash and excitement you get from .357.

 

[gotboostvr]

Are we intentionally cherry picking loads for a desired result? The .357 PDX load is only rated at 1325fps. I've clocked 125gr handloads at nearly 1500fps out of a friggin' 3" barrel model 60.

I just so happened to have recently acquired a brace of 3" M60-15's. Care to share your recipe? My wife would probably like to touch a few off out of my 4" 686. She likes a big muzzle flash without a whole lot of recoil.

 

[243winxb]

The weight of the firearm has to be considered, like a 10 oz revolver in 38 +P .

 

[SharpDog]

IMHO, If your revolver is chambered in .357 mag then I would use that as the cartridge will fit the chamber better and also avoid cleaning problems. The costs for both are around $0.20 and the performance out of a snub are equivalent as well.

Two of my favorite revolvers to fire are my old Taurus .357 snub I got from eBay (when they first started, I also got a .44 mag snub from eBay. This was before they stopped selling firearms, waaaay back)

These two Taurus snubs are ported (and thankfully don't have the $*(@&!$@(*@ key thing)

And in the dark, the fire shooting out all around your hand is truly a sight to see

I have since moved to J-frames for my .357 snubs.

 

[CraigC]

I just so happened to have recently acquired a brace of 3" M60-15's. Care to share your recipe? My wife would probably like to touch a few off out of my 4" 686. She likes a big muzzle flash without a whole lot of recoil.

I posted this on another forum in response to rhetoric that faster powders are better in shorter barrels. Here's a copy & paste.

S&W model 28 4"
125gr XTP over 22.0gr H110/WSP - 1536fps
125fgr XTP over 9.6gr Unique/WSP - 1270fps

An advantage of 266fps in favor of H110.

S&W model 60 3"
125gr XTP over 22.0gr H110/WSP - 1480fps
125fgr XTP over 9.6gr Unique/WSP - 1300fps

An advantage of 180fps in favor of H110.

 

[Cump]

My frame of reference is all steel mod 60s, sp101s, and the scandium 327 with a full grip. I have been more accurate with 357 in all three. I don't know if is because the bullet isn't jumping the gap or less dwell time or quality of ammo. Unscientific. My timed follow-ups are only marginally slower, as well, so I choose 357. That said, I typically don't carry a j-frame at night (as much for the sights as the muzzle flash).

So I would go with individual experience over internet common sense because you might just be more accurate with 357, and might not care much about the recoil

 

[gotboostvr]

I posted this on another forum in response to rhetoric that faster powders are better in shorter barrels. Here's a copy & paste.

S&W model 60 3"
125gr XTP over 22.0gr H110/WSP - 1480fps
125fgr XTP over 9.6gr Unique/WSP - 1300fps

An advantage of 180fps in favor of H110.

Perfect, I've got 125gr XTP's and half a pound of H110 in my garage!

Once my wife recovers from having our daughter a week ago, I'll let you know what she thinks of the combo!

 

[Anchorite]

I have several 38 snubs, a 2 2/4” SP101, a couple of Speed Sixes, a 2 3/4” Security Six, and a couple of 4” 357s. I also have a 340PD.

Shooting the 340PD is like hitting your hand with a ball peen hammer with 357s. The SP isn’t that bad, but it damn sure isn’t pleasant. I definitely prefer to shoot *any* 357 out of at least a 4” barrel. I think anything shorter should be exclusively 38s. YMMV.

 

[Dibbs]

Yanno, last week I WANTED to do some comparison testing of my .357 Hollowpoints VS
38 Special, so I started looking for some 180 grain 38 Special loads. I couldn't find any
180 grain loads in 38 Special. Does ANYONE know where I can find some 180 grain 38
Special loads, to compare to my .357s?

 

[Eddietruett]

Doesn't a steady diet of .38s in a .357 cause leading/erosion issues in the cylinders? I got rid of a H&R Sportsman because someone shot a bazillion shorts through it and created a permanent ring in each chamber.

Doubt it is permanent. Usually a good brushing will clean it out. My favorite to clean out leading from a barrel or build up like you have in a cylinder is to get Chore Boy Scrubbing pads and take a just cut a few strands and wrap it around a brass brush and it will take it right out. Make sure you get the copper pads and not copper coated pads. It is especially great on leading. Another thing I've done in cylinders is get a bronze or brass brush and cut off a cleaning rod about 6 inches or so and put in a cordless drill. Run it in and out on slow and it will get the stubborn rings out if they have really built up

 

[forrest r]

The real advantage of the snubnosed 357 over the 38spl is the ability to use heavier bullets in the 357's. Several posts about the bb 158gr p+/snubnosed 38spl combo. Try a 1000fps 170gr bullet in the 357, way more impressive than the bb 20a ammo & actually has the same felt recoil.

Myself I use a 170gr 1200fps load in my snubnosed 357.

2400 is an excellent choice of powders for reloading the snubnosed 357. It will easily out perform h110 & mp-300 in 1 7/*" to 2 1/2" bbl.'s. It takes a 4" bbl for the h110 & mp-300 to start to shine over 2400. When you get to the 6" bbl.'s & longer the h110 & mp-300 steal the show.

 

[Confederate]

I did the opposite. [Four] 38's and the final round a 357. The first 4 would give me fast follow up shots and control. If you needed it the 357 would give the extra power to hopefully end the fight.

I AGREE. A person coming at you and absorbing the .38 Spc JHPs will likely drop with the .357.

That said, .357mag does outperform .38spl +P, even in snubbies. It also has ferocious recoil and blast. Usually the first thing someone does after buying and shooting a .357mag snubby is look for milder .357 magnums or peppy .38spl +P loads.

YES. But the .357 isn't all that ferocious. I shot some .357s out of a 2-shot derringer. It was quite a blast, but in an emergency situation, I could fire it with no problem. Also, years ago, I accidentally shot a .357 125gr JHP without hearing protection. I just forgot to put the plugs back in. I was surprised by the blast, but the ringing in my ears stopped quicker than I thought. Back in the 80s, when the .357 was very popular among both police and shooters, I never heard any complaints about the blast and recoil. It was a fine hunting gun and people loved the S&W 66 6-inch, which was very hard to get. I got a Model 13 4-inch once and traded it in for a Ruger Security-Six 6-inch stainless. Looking back it was a mistake because I was never able to get another Model 13 with that beautiful bluing. But shooting those old Security-Sixes with those skinny grips was no picnic. (I finally got some Pachmayrs--duh.)

 

[SwampWolf]

I just don't see the downside to picking an otherwise same or similar .357 Magnum revolver over one chambered in .38 Special. At last count, including a Smith & Wesson Model 52, I have eight handguns chambered in .38 Special, so I have nothing against them and plenty of praise for them. But, because you can shoot .38 Special ammunition in a .357 Magnum revolver and can't shoot .357 Magnum ammunition in a revolver chambered for .38 Special, the versatility afforded by the Magnum wins my vote every time.
You don't want the recoil, noise and flash from .357 Magnum ammunition in a revolver chambered for same? Use .38 Special ammunition. You want the extra power from .357 Magnum ammunition in a revolver chambered for .38 Special, even one suited for "Plus P" stuff? Sorry; can't happen.