.38 spl UMC rounds?

[monotonous_iterancy]

I recently came across a type of ammo I've never seen before. The box said .38 spl, UMC rounds, 130gr. It was made by Remington. I learned that MC stands for "metal casing". The bullet itself is sort of a hat shaped TC shape, covered in a metal I'm not sure, though it's gray, and the casings seem to be made of iron or steel as well. They aren't yellow or golden like brass.

1. What are these, what are they used for?

2. Given that it doesn't appear to be made of soft metals, will this damage a gun if fired - like will it wear on the bore or something?

 

[moxie]

Those should be fine for target shooting. Take a refrigerator magnet and see if there is any iron or steel in the case or bullet. Probably not.

 

[41magsnub]

It is Remington value brand. The bullets are plain old FMJ's.

UMC is a brand Remington merged with in the early 1900's

 

[Jim Watson]

The only 130 gr UMC .38s I have seen were full jacketed (or plated) bullets in bare brass cases. That's what Midway catalogs.

A "bullet itself is sort of a hat shaped TC shape, covered in a metal I'm not sure, though it's gray" sounds sort of like a lead SWC.

And "casings seem to be made of iron or steel as well. They aren't yellow or golden like brass." sounds like nickel or cadmium plating.

Either Remington is selling a different round under the UMC label or he has gotten somebody's reloads in a UMC box.

 

[monotonous_iterancy]

A semi-wadcutter? I think that's what it is, according to a picture I saw. I've only ever seen full wadcutters, which are totally flat.

So what differentiates a SWC from a WC purpose-wise?

It seems like an older box, though I can't date it.

 

[Nathanael_Greene]

As I recall, UMC stands for "Union Metallic Cartridge", a division of Remington at one time (not sure if it still is). From Lonoke, Arkansas or something like that, I believe.

Semi-wadcutters are pretty standard .38 special reloads, at least around these parts. They give you a lot of the performance of a wadcutter (nice round holes in paper) with a little better trajectory (thanks to the truncated cone shape). Also, they tend to run in the 158-grain size, as opposed to the 148-grain wadcutter. Regarded by some as a pretty decent self-defense round as well.

Not sure if that's what you've got, but I've got a few hundred .38 special semi-wadcutters around here someplace.

 

[rcmodel]

As stated above, UMC stands of Union Metallic Cartridge.
It does not stand for Metal Case.

The 130 MC does stand for 130 grain Metal Case, which means they are fully jacketed and not lead, JSP or JHP.

It is Remington's 'price point' brand.

though it's gray, and the casings seem to be made of iron or steel as well. They aren't yellow or golden like brass.

Then it is not Remington UMC ammo.

Although it may be in a UMC box.
The bullets in the photo are RN-FP = Round Nose - Flat Point.

To my knowledge, Rem/UMC has never loaded or sold any steel or aluminum case ammo, or bullets.



rc

 

[Ron James]

" MC stands for Metal Castings" ?.
who ever told you that, please do the world a favor and go back and slap them

 

[monotonous_iterancy]

^^ If that's what they're supposed to look like, then what I have might be handloads. The seller I saw also had a bunch of .45s of mixed casings. But the Fiocchi .38+P wadcutters I got seem to be the real deal.

 

[monotonous_iterancy]

Wait...that box says "loaded with XTP-HP bullets". These are wadcutters...

I think I might have bought a strangers hand-loaded ammo then, unless he took different factory made rounds and put them in a different box. Is it safe for me to shoot this?

 

[Flashcube]

Like your fingers? I wouldn't shoot any unknown reloads of unknown origin. Ever.

Last thing anyone needs is to touch off bubba's compressed super special magnum load at eye level in an old .38....

 

[monotonous_iterancy]

Like your fingers? I wouldn't shoot any unknown reloads of unknown origin. Ever.

Last thing anyone needs is to touch off bubba's compressed super special magnum load at eye level in an old .38....

If so, then I wasted $35. Is there a way to tell definitively if they are handloads or not?

 

[Radagast]

Nope, but the ammo does not match the box, so I would not trust it.
You could try posting a pic of a loaded round and its head stamp, someone may be able to identify it, but shooting it would be completely your responsibility.

The .38 Special case is a stretched version of the black powder .38 Long Colt. With a normal charge of smokeless gun powder there is a lot of empty space in the case.
So a hand loader has lots of space to play with when being foolish. Plus there is the opportunity to use a faster burning powder than is safe with that bullet weight...
I've had friends who were usually competent re-loaders blow up Glock 22s & 35s, damage the slide on a Glock 34, as well as crack the frame on Para Ordnance and Tanfoglio guns. It doesn't take much distraction to stuff up when reloading.

edit: And then there was the incompetent re-loader who filled a .270 case with shotgun powder and crammed a bullet on top. That broke the stock, split the receiver and flipped the gun off his shoulder to crack a bullet proof glass window 8 feet behind him. Miraculously he was not hurt!

 

[tubeshooter]

I thought about the headstamps, too. No guarantee of anything, but a good place to start if you suspect they are reloads.

I also thought about just telling you to find a Blackhawk to shoot them in to see how they behave, but Radagast has outlined why that is not necessarily particularly good advice. As stated, the responsibility on shooting these (questionable) rounds lies totally with you.


I have bought plenty of UMC .38 special over the years with no ill effects. It is mild target/training fodder, IMO. If you go on to shoot them and they seem spicy in the least - well, then you have your answer.

 

[mnrivrat]

In 1888, Remington was purchased by Marcus Hartley and Partners, a major sporting goods chain who also owned the Union Metallic Cartridge Company in Bridgeport, Connecticut. The Bridgeport site became the home of Remington's ammunition plant

UMC has ben around for awhile

 

[evan price]

I would estimate that I see at least once per month someone talking about loading magnum velocity loads in 38 special brass in a reloading forum. The ones that are for it always say that "they will know" which ones they are and it's not a problem.
Well, here's why you only load stuff to what the headstamp says it is.


Is it worth $35 to risk your fingers or face?

 

[Riomouse911]

As for the Remington loads, Remington also made a "lead free" frangible .38 Special load in the UMC box tailored for indoor ranges. They came in that green/white box like the picture, not the older yellow UMC box. The bullet looks different than a standard FMJ-RN that is loaded by American Eagle (Federal ) or Remington, as there is a bit of exposed powdered metal used to form the bullet at the tip to make it frangible. The headstamp has a "L" and "F" on opposite sides of the primer, but the case is regular brass.

I grabbed a few boxes of these when they were discontinued at Wal-mart about 4 years back for 7 bucks a box, no one ever bought them so the manager got rid of them. (Man I wish he had cases of it at that price, I woulda snapped them up, too)

The "steel case" color almost sound like Blazer ammo in the aluminim cases, or they are reloads in a factory box someone is selling. What does the headstamp read on these cartridges, maybe that will help. (especially if they're all different headstamps with the same bullet)

 

[rswartsell]

I have shot recently some UMC that was fully jacketed 130 gr RNFP (round nose flat point), it was copper jacketed though and not gray, the cases were brass. Are you also saying that the case is aluminum a la Blazer? Nickel plated cases are used by some manufacturers alternately- for ease of ejection in SD rounds- to designate magnums-possibly other thinking, but they usually indicate a premium round not budget.

They will be bright glossy silver in color, aluminum cases are dull gray. I believe you have some sort of bullet in probably an aluminum (non-reloadable) case. I have never heard of steel case handgun ammo. I have only seen that in communist block AK and SKS intended 7.62x39.

A google search for UMC (hoping to find their catalogued ammo) takes you to the Remington site with no UMC ammo catalogue. I'd be leery of this. I will only trust ammunition that I know the origin of first hand. In some cases, not even then.

 

[Certaindeaf]

If so, then I wasted $35. Is there a way to tell definitively if they are handloads or not?

If the box says XTP-HP and there's SWC's in it, they are handloads.. almost certainly.

 

[rswartsell]

Certaindeaf is right, and that means they aren't aluminum cases, but the cases could have come from anything. There are plenty of amateur hand-loaders out there that I would not trust to feed my cat.

I need to read previous posts more carefully.

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

Marcus Hartley and Partners were a New York sporting goods firm that had been around since before the Civil War. When the war started they became a very large government contractor for guns and ammunition. What became UMC was their ammunition supply subsidiary for government contracts during the Civil War. It was quite common for common for companies to set up subsidiary companies to fulfill government armament contracts even up to the present day. Example is the giant firm of Baldwin Locomotive Works(produced more steam locomotives than any other company in the world) which mainly produced steam locomotives set up Eddystone as a separate company to produce rifles, ammo and artillery shells during WWI. After the war the company was dissolved and it's assets were adsorbed by the BLW.

 

[ku4hx]

If so, then I wasted $35. Is there a way to tell definitively if they are handloads or not?

Sometimes the sizing die will "burnish" the cases exterior to within about 1/8th - 1/16th inch from the bottom and in the right light that can be seen. You can also look for scratches on the case. Not used that much any more, but dirty steel sizing dies were notorious for scratching cases.

 

[Jim Watson]

Show us pictures, I am getting tired of Internet 20 Questions.

 

[monotonous_iterancy]

I tried to get some pictures yesterday. I'll have them up eventually.