.380: Is it really that bad?
- Thread starter Heir Kommt Die Sonne
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Heir Kommt Die Sonne
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The Commie surplus pistols, the PPKs and Sig .380s are gems of semi-autos, that's for sure. The Makarov has always stood out to me as a attractive little gem particularly. One of the reasons I'm interested in .380
James Bond 007 can drop the bad guy from across the courtyard with a 380.
What ain’t cool about that?
Bond never used a 380. His PPK was in 32 acp.
In the books he started his killing spree wielding a Beretta .25 with "skeleton grips"...whatever those are.
Stay safe.
Bond's Beretta was a 418 model. Not much to the standard grips on them. I wonder how "skeleton" you can make them.
GBExpat
Member
And he missed his snap shot with his .25 Beretta across the courtyard (at night during mayhem) in Turkey (From Russia With Love?). In the books he was a bit more human.
I always assumed that what Fleming was referring to with the grip was grip panels removed and the naked frame covered with tape (all so that it was smaller, as I recall).
Please forgive me if I erred in that report. I read the books once ~53 years ago ... but they made an impression upon me.
sparkyv
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skeeterfogger
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That's called missing the target.
jar
Contributing Member
That's a very nice looking P230 you have there. However I have a funny feeling it is not yours. And yes, it is easy to shoot, accurate and has been reliable now for nearly a quarter century. But now it's wearing some smooth Hogue wood grips that make it easier to pocket carry than the rubber or the Nils grips it wears on formal occasions.
AbE:
Some others not yet mentioned I think.
Sig P290RS 380 over their 9mm version:
Remington RM380:
S&W M&P Bodyguard 380:
Remington RM380:
S&W M&P Bodyguard 380:
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Charlie Martinez
Member
I recently shot a 380 for the first time & was very impressed. Until then I was not much of a 380 fan based on what I had read but I don't feel that way any longer. The pistol I shot was a compact Glock (don't recall which model). The owner is a retired police officer who uses it as his CCW & tells me that the large number of homicides committed with 380's is proof of how effective the round can be.
Jeb Stuart
member
Ok, Mr. Farmer. I have just reported you to PETV. (People for the ethical treatment of Vegetables). Obviously 380 rounds do not just bounce off of them.
(PS, like your new LCP, is that a special edition?)
Armored farmer
Member
Yes that LCP is a 10th anniversary edition.....but it isnt mine.....it is mrs farmer's.
Jeb Stuart
member
Ditto on the Kahr, just a lovely shooter. And the CM9 which is one of the Smallest Micro 9's is just as nice and friendly to shoot. One gun that I find fascinating is the Beretta Pico. Just a marvel in enginnering and design. And in shooting as well. Love all the Pocketguns.
GOT 32?
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Charlie98
Member
As far as locked breech vs blowback... yes, there is a significant difference in recoil impulse, even in something as tiny as the .380. Compared head to head, my brother's PPK/s and my Colt Government .380... is night and day. That PPK/s cracks your hand, the Colt doesn't. The PPK/s seems heavier, too, but I never weighed them side-by-side to see. My old AMT DAO was also blowback, but it was such a small pistol, and not easy to shoot well with it's trench sights and 74# trigger pull... you didn't really notice the recoil after all that.
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Heir Kommt Die Sonne
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TomJ
Contributing Member
I'm going to assume they were exagerating, something that's happened once or twice in gun shops. While I wouldn't feel uncomfortable carrying a .380, with so many pocket 9's available that are easily concealable, I went with a 9.
OP
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Heir Kommt Die Sonne
Member
These guys sounded serious, and I should mention this was at Sportsmans Warehouse. You know, people who think a .300 Mag is the only adequate round for deer. But yes it was only one example. The SD Instructor was also a real story.
It's been on my mind lately. One of the reasons I'm looking at .380s. I want to prove them wrong and blow up some milk jugs.
entropy
Member
Because gun shop Komandos all have Gecko 45's level of experience and wisdom.
.The Sig P230 is not a full sized gun. The Beretta 84 is about the closest thing there is to a full sized .380, maybe the CZ 24. BTW,
I will attest that a CZ 24 with Glasers will do that, and spectacularly.
My next .380 will be of the pocket variety; I carried my son's DB380 for a while; he sold it to his brother, I kind of miss it. I'm thinking Spectrum or RM380. Maybe an LCP if a cheap price comes my way.
zaitcev
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If someone wants a soft-shooting .380, then S&W "Shield" 380 EZ is probably it, but I haven't tested it yet.
This picture almost looks normal until you notice the Lula and then you can't unsee how large it is in comparison with the "1911" (it's a Browning, we were testing the fiber front sight that I printed for it).
This picture almost looks normal until you notice the Lula and then you can't unsee how large it is in comparison with the "1911" (it's a Browning, we were testing the fiber front sight that I printed for it).
Seeing as this has turned in to a "show your 9mm Browning" thread.
My First 380, purchased new (surprisingly enough, I still have the box):
Colt 380 Government model
This is the only pistol that I have ever used for personal defence. However, I never fired a shot, in fact, I didn't even remove it from its holster. I don't carry t because I feel odd carrying an out of production pistol.
In addition, I frequently found it with the safety off when I know I holstered it with the safety on. I never considered it to be the biggest of all possible problems, after all, it has a firing pin block, but it did give me cause for concern.
Not a 380, but real close:
Makarov
This one is in 9x18, the ammunition is available, but a bit obscure. I detail stripped it and polished all mating parts. The result was a significantly better gun than I had started with. However, it is a bit heavy in comparison to the others on this list.
Being a blowback pistol it also had more felt recoil than there others here. It, being a blowback, is a bit hard to charge due to the heavy recoil spring.
I purchased when I returned to the states and my Colt was on the other side of the country:
Glock 42
I really can't say why this one never became a favourite. I have really tried to like it. It is large enough to get a good grip on it. With practice, I became reasonably accurate with it. I just never "bonded" to it.
One complaint I have with it is that it is very hard to charge. The recoil spring is very heavy and the slide is coated with a finish that would be appropriate to non-stick cookware. I eventually added a product that is essentially state board tape in the cocking serrations. That change made it a significantly more serviceable pistol. However, by that time I had just lost interest in it.
For some reason, I don't seem to have many pictures of this one:
Walther PK380
Another one that I should have liked, but didn't. The easy charging slide addressed my, "hard to charge," complaint about the Glock 42. The long double-action trigger pull alleviated my discomfort about the Glock trigger system. But I never really like it.
I think the problem was that, for what it is, it is a very wide pistol. It also looked like a pistol that was intentionally limited after its initial design. Looking at it, it is obvious that it was initially designed to have a double stack magazine. Then somewhere along the way, it was decided to market it as a single stack. As such the mag well is filled with spacers.
For a 380 it is a large pistol, I am okay with that, however, it could be a bit slimmer.
If it had a grip safety it would be perfect:
Kimber Micro 380
I honestly feel that if this one had a grip safety it would be great. The Kimber Micro 380 is one of a large family of pistols that are based on the Colt 380 Government Model. All of the sudden the market was flooded with versions of this pistol. I suspect it has a lot to do with the expiration of several patents on the Colt 380 Government Model. This pistol is so close that the Colt 380 Government Model slide can be put on, and used with, the Kimber lower. The opposite is also true, the Kimber upper can be used on the Colt lower.
It addressed one complaint I have with the Colt 380 Government Model, which is the poor quality of the Colts sights.
I think because I started with a 1911, that I just expect this type of pistol to have a grip safety. In all the Micro 380, and its siblings from other manufacturers is a great pistol and I would not hesitate to recommend it. The only issue is that being a single action, the user needs to be very comfortable with the manual safety.
My current preferred carry pistol:
Browning 1911-380
For a 380 this, like the Walther, is large. If a person is comfortable with that, and with the 1911 controls, then this is a great pistol. It is only a small amount smaller than the Walther in High and length but feels much thinner.
This is my most commonly carried pistol. The sights and trigger are good, I am not going to repeat all of the reviews here, however, it is also one I would recommend to someone that is comfortable with the 1911. Internally is much more similar to the standard 1911 than the Colt 380 Government Model family is.
It is swapped out with the Kimber at times due to its size.
As far as the efficacy of the 9x17 for defensive purposes, all of the statistics I have seen tell me that it is adequate.
My First 380, purchased new (surprisingly enough, I still have the box):
Colt 380 Government model
This is the only pistol that I have ever used for personal defence. However, I never fired a shot, in fact, I didn't even remove it from its holster. I don't carry t because I feel odd carrying an out of production pistol.
In addition, I frequently found it with the safety off when I know I holstered it with the safety on. I never considered it to be the biggest of all possible problems, after all, it has a firing pin block, but it did give me cause for concern.
Not a 380, but real close:
Makarov
This one is in 9x18, the ammunition is available, but a bit obscure. I detail stripped it and polished all mating parts. The result was a significantly better gun than I had started with. However, it is a bit heavy in comparison to the others on this list.
Being a blowback pistol it also had more felt recoil than there others here. It, being a blowback, is a bit hard to charge due to the heavy recoil spring.
I purchased when I returned to the states and my Colt was on the other side of the country:
Glock 42
I really can't say why this one never became a favourite. I have really tried to like it. It is large enough to get a good grip on it. With practice, I became reasonably accurate with it. I just never "bonded" to it.
One complaint I have with it is that it is very hard to charge. The recoil spring is very heavy and the slide is coated with a finish that would be appropriate to non-stick cookware. I eventually added a product that is essentially state board tape in the cocking serrations. That change made it a significantly more serviceable pistol. However, by that time I had just lost interest in it.
For some reason, I don't seem to have many pictures of this one:
Walther PK380
Another one that I should have liked, but didn't. The easy charging slide addressed my, "hard to charge," complaint about the Glock 42. The long double-action trigger pull alleviated my discomfort about the Glock trigger system. But I never really like it.
I think the problem was that, for what it is, it is a very wide pistol. It also looked like a pistol that was intentionally limited after its initial design. Looking at it, it is obvious that it was initially designed to have a double stack magazine. Then somewhere along the way, it was decided to market it as a single stack. As such the mag well is filled with spacers.
For a 380 it is a large pistol, I am okay with that, however, it could be a bit slimmer.
If it had a grip safety it would be perfect:
Kimber Micro 380
I honestly feel that if this one had a grip safety it would be great. The Kimber Micro 380 is one of a large family of pistols that are based on the Colt 380 Government Model. All of the sudden the market was flooded with versions of this pistol. I suspect it has a lot to do with the expiration of several patents on the Colt 380 Government Model. This pistol is so close that the Colt 380 Government Model slide can be put on, and used with, the Kimber lower. The opposite is also true, the Kimber upper can be used on the Colt lower.
It addressed one complaint I have with the Colt 380 Government Model, which is the poor quality of the Colts sights.
I think because I started with a 1911, that I just expect this type of pistol to have a grip safety. In all the Micro 380, and its siblings from other manufacturers is a great pistol and I would not hesitate to recommend it. The only issue is that being a single action, the user needs to be very comfortable with the manual safety.
My current preferred carry pistol:
Browning 1911-380
For a 380 this, like the Walther, is large. If a person is comfortable with that, and with the 1911 controls, then this is a great pistol. It is only a small amount smaller than the Walther in High and length but feels much thinner.
This is my most commonly carried pistol. The sights and trigger are good, I am not going to repeat all of the reviews here, however, it is also one I would recommend to someone that is comfortable with the 1911. Internally is much more similar to the standard 1911 than the Colt 380 Government Model family is.
It is swapped out with the Kimber at times due to its size.
As far as the efficacy of the 9x17 for defensive purposes, all of the statistics I have seen tell me that it is adequate.
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TomJ
Contributing Member
I know the type and don't pay attention to what they say. If a .380 is right for you, go ahead with it.
Fine Figure of a Man
Member
I don’t carry or even have a 380. For people concerned about concealment or wanting the smallest effective self defense gun 380s make sense. I can’t see the purpose in a full sized 380 handgun.
bannockburn
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Ahh, Gunshop Commandos; got to love 'em for their tall tales and made-up misinformation!
One of the first guns my older brother bought was a Mauser HSc in .380. I can remember looking at the FMJ ammo he got for it and thinking "Wow that round seems tiny; doubt it could even get through a layer of cardboard". So we went down the basement of our parent's home and set up a bullet trap with a well built wooden crate and packed it with several thick phone books. This will easily stop anything from going through, or so we thought...
Fired 5 rounds from about 25 feet away. All 5 went through the phone books, through the bottom of the crate, and much to our consternation, penetrated some 2 to 3 inches into the wood paneling on the back wall! We were quick to implement damage control, digging out the bullets, filling in the holes with some wood filler, and then putting some boxes in front of the spot! Thank goodness our folks were none the wiser for our little misadventure and thereafter we confined our shooting activities to a local shooting range!
Took away 2 things from our little test firing: first never use your parent's basement as an impromptu place to shoot, and second, erased any doubts that the .380 can't do a decent job of penetration!
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WrongHanded
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The big issue I've seen with .380 as a SD cartridge, is finding a balance between over penetration and minimal wound tracking (FMJ); and under penetration, because there's a lack of mass and velocity pushing a hollow point bullet that expands well.
I saw a gel test done with Double Tap Controlled Expansion ammunition. They didn't expand well through denim, but they seemed to expand enough to avoid massive over penetration. So I carry those in my G42 (which I only carry as a BUG).
I saw a gel test done with Double Tap Controlled Expansion ammunition. They didn't expand well through denim, but they seemed to expand enough to avoid massive over penetration. So I carry those in my G42 (which I only carry as a BUG).
jar
Contributing Member
Well I never said you claimed it was yours but it is one of my pictures my P230. It's not really a full size pistol and with the right grips makes a useful pocket pistol. One that is about the same size, as reliable and rugged to also consider is the Makarov. It is slightly more powerful than the 380, the same size and fun to shoot.
Speedo66
Member
Bounce off? Nothing fired from an actual gun bounces off skin within a reasonable distance. Only thing I've seen even close to that was, we once had a case where a guy was shot almost point blank in the forehead with a .25. The bullet penetrated his scalp, but followed the contour of his skull under the skin and exited the scalp at the back of his head. But it did not bounce off him. Even people shot with .22's do not have them bounce off, let alone a .380.
Why do people make ridiculous unsubstantiated statements like that? Rather than enhancing, it just shows how little they know.
I've even had BB's penetrate my skin. lol
Why do people make ridiculous unsubstantiated statements like that? Rather than enhancing, it just shows how little they know.
I've even had BB's penetrate my skin. lol
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