.380: Is it really that bad?

[CZF]

In my case, a PPK/s .380 or .22 and two spare mags, walther knife . flashilight and other stuff.

means that while not a light to carry .380 by far, it is sill reasonably powerful for human defense,
and doesn't kill my back like a PPS , PPS M2, PPQ Sub_Compact. G43, or XD _S or my now
ex-wife's XDS-Mod 2 9mm. I've tried about everything in 9mm, .357 SIG, .45 ACp and the Ruger LR comes close but only with six -shots of
.327 Federal Magnum.

For the most part I'm more scared of Black Bear and other wildlife than criminals so I carry this beauty with
snakeshot and Hardcast. or a Double Tap Hollow-point.

After I sell my ex-wife's gun,

I'll wait a while and look for either a XDM 10mm. Or a Walther PPQ .45 ACP.

I will be posting the pros ad cons for either choice for animal defense, or hunting with a Hardcast bullet.

 

[WYO]

I

For the most part I'm more scared of Black Bear and other wildlife than criminals so I carry this beauty with
snakeshot and Hardcast. or a Double Tap Hollow-point.
View attachment 847684

I'd still prefer my Glock 42 loaded with Xtreme Penetrators or Buffalo Bore hard cast.

 

[czhen]

It’s anecdotal evidence but half the ones I’ve run into malfunction periodically.

My stepfather bought my sister a Bersa Thunder .380 and it malfunctions at least once per mag. Since I’m into guns, used to work at a gun store, have taken a few classes etc my family and friends tend to rely on me to help them. I’ve cleaned it for her, bought new mags, tried different ammo and taken it to a smith who could find nothing wrong with it.

I urged her to send it back to Bersa, but she hasn’t done it yet.

My CZ-75 Compact 9mm is on long term loan to her as a result.

One friend and one guy at work also have one (same model) and they've been completely reliable.

Another guy at work on a different shift had issues similar to my sister and went through a similar experience. No longer trusting it he replaced it with a Glock 43.

So I wouldn’t personally buy one. :Shrug

Your mileage may vary.

Bersa are very picky about mags ammo. Mags have to bought according serial #.

 

[Cocked & Locked]

I've got four .380's. The Sig P230 is my favorite. The Ruger LCP is #2. The Glock 42 is #3. The Walther PPKs is my least favorite, #4.

The Ruger LCP gets carried the most because it is the smallest and hides away the easiest. I carry Speer Lawman FMJ ammo in it.

A .380 in my pocket is comforting BUT I feel better armed carrying something in 9mm or bigger.

 

[dores893]

I carry a .380 when no other option will work given the circumstances of what I'm doing and wearing. I would say it's WAY better than nothing. I certainly wouldn't want to get shot with even a .22LR. They bounce around without an exit wound.

 

[Deanimator]

.380acp "bad"? Hardly.

I will NEVER carry a .32acp pistol for self-defense, EVER. In a small enough gun (PPK or smaller) I'd carry a .380acp.

Are there things better for self-defense? Anything 9x19mm or bigger.

 

[beeenbag]

They bounce around without an exit wound.

Please stop saying this, I know you’ve heard it somewhere but it’s simply not true nor does it comply with the laws of physics.

 

[5-SHOTS]

.32ACP and .380ACP were considered police pistol calibers for many decades here in Europe.
In WW2 italian soldier were issued with the Beretta 34 and after the WW2 the Beretta 34 was still the side pistol for many police corps. Then arrived the Beretta 84 which is still the choice for a side pistol for many many city police corps (National police corps has the Beretta 92FS).
That means something? Not necessary but I think .380ACP is capable to do the job. For the military and police use, Fiocchi has developed a hot load for what is called the M34 cartridge. I had the opportunity to shoot some of those rounds through the Colt Government stainless I used to own but I gently refused because I feared they could damage the gun. No problems shooting them with the Beretta 34 and 84.

 

[PWC]

I have a Bersa Firestorm duo tone, goes bang eveyr time, not had a misfeed.

 

[TUBBY1]

 

[TUBBY1]

Fits in the pocket which makes it easy. I have 4 380s.first gen. LCP with ct, 2nd gen LCP , body guard., and Kimber micro 380. Always go back to this one because it's too easy.

 

[Browning]

I certainly wouldn't want to get shot with even a .22LR. They bounce around without an exit wound.

Please stop saying this, I know you’ve heard it somewhere but it’s simply not true nor does it comply with the laws of physics.

I don’t know about bouncing. We don’t exactly carry around imagery in the back of our ambulances and I’m also not exactly using a probe to establish the trajectory. However most of the shootings I’ve responded to that involved a .22LR didn’t have an exit wound except for one where a wife shot her husband in the hand for smoking the last piece of crack. One guy got shot at least 10 times with a .22 rifle and there was only one exit wound. Those are the only two exit wounds I’ve seen on the dozen+ shootings with a .22LR. Most were shot multiple times.

Then again most of the tiny sample of shootings I’ve run on that involved a .380 didn’t have exit wounds either. Texans in our area seem to prefer .45, 9mil, .357 or .44 mag for some reason. The .380 shootings that I’ve gone on that were fatalities were a robbery/execution deal that resulted in a death sentence and execution for the robber and were from close up to the head. Still no exit.

The other one (I’ve literally only run three shootings that I knew was a .380) was a drug deal gone bad and even though he was a skinny meth head and shot in the arms, legs and abdomen there still wasn’t an exit.

9mm, .40 S&W (usually police), .45 ACP, .357 mag, .44 mag all typically exit (depending on location and if it was through a barrier) for what it’s worth.

 

[zaitcev]

As an experiment, I ran a 2-day 1000-round class with Glock 42 with Fraurem extension and 12-round ETS magazines. There were a couple of drills that I had to cut short because they were designed for 15-round magazines, but overall it was a success.

I had to obtain a prior permission from the instructor and barely talked him into this. As it turned out later, in the years past, students tried to bring other .380 guns and typically they were not reliable enough. Waiting for them to clear malfunctions all the time disrupted other students. We didn't have much time for that, shooting for 2 days (mostly dry-firing though - I'm sure we'd break through 2000 rounds if we were just straight shooting). Apparently, Glock 42 was the first .380 that performed well in the class. I did have 1 malfunction somewhere near 200 rounds into the 1000, but that was it

The picture is a dump of my range bag. Mag pouches were of sadly departed "Krydex" brand, which I modified just a little: I printed middle of the road inserts for Glock 42 magazines on my 3-D printer.

 

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

As an experiment, I ran a 2-day 1000-round class with Glock 42 with Fraurem extension and 12-round ETS magazines. There were a couple of drills that I had to cut short because they were designed for 15-round magazines, but overall it was a success.

I had to obtain a prior permission from the instructor and barely talked him into this. As it turned out later, in the years past, students tried to bring other .380 guns and typically they were not reliable enough. Waiting for them to clear malfunctions all the time disrupted other students. We didn't have much time for that, shooting for 2 days (mostly dry-firing though - I'm sure we'd break through 2000 rounds if we were just straight shooting). Apparently, Glock 42 was the first .380 that performed well in the class. I did have 1 malfunction somewhere near 200 rounds into the 1000, but that was it

The picture is a dump of my range bag. Mag pouches were of sadly departed "Krydex" brand, which I modified just a little: I printed middle of the road inserts for Glock 42 magazines on my 3-D printer.

View attachment 850541

I wonder if that's the one time any Glock 42 has ever been shot that much.
Sad to hear that so many market .380s are unreliable. I hope this Sig p230 performs well. So far it has, with only jams every other magazine (Or I'm just generous with reliability)

 

[cougar1717]

Would it really be too bad?

mentioning .380 as being a round that 'bounces off people'

this was at Sportsmans Warehouse

The gun counter... the pinnacle of reliable information!

IMHO, the problem with 380 handguns is that they are typically small, pocket guns with low capacity, short barrel, and no slide stop. The problem with 380 auto ammunition is that ***most*** loads do not have enough powder capacity (ie - SAAMI pressure specs) to have enough velocity to consistently penetrate 12-18" AND attain good bullet expansion. Most loads either have good expansion in the 8-11" range or don't expand well and end up with .355" holes in the 19-22" range.

While terrible, trite comments like, "Well, I wouldn't want to be shot with it!" still abound, there are so many good small handguns in 9mm Luger, which by the way, has more powder capacity, can attain more velocity, and subsequently can attain both good penetration and expansion with specific ammo in short barrels. 380's are by no means obsolete, it's just that "micro 9's" are the better mousetrap for many people.
This isn't to be down on the 380 auto or anyone who chooses to use or carry it. There is just so much comparative testing data out there today that "gunshop stories" just look silly now. It isn't that the 380 auto will bounce off a person, however, people are bigger now than they were in 1908 and 10" of penetration with good expansion may not be enough, especially at off angles, through barriers, etc.

 

[tubeshooter]

My personal take:

Average at best for SD in today's world. Soft shooting in duty-sized guns. Expensive for what it is. Popular "mousegun" caliber, although it didn't start out that way.

I regard the performance as roughly equivalent to .38 Special FMJ (granted that premium .380 ammo exceeds this). Full disclosure that I have always been a revolver guy, but I like the .38 a little better here between the two. Partly for ballistics, partly for platform. Neither are known for great barrier penetration.



I think it's fine as long as you accept it for what it is. Nothing worse that a .380 guy trying to hotrod the gun into a 9. It just ain't happening. The laws of physics still apply on all counts. I remember the big drought from a few years ago, so I keep a few boxes on hand even though it's definitely a "bench" caliber for me.

 

[FROGO207]

Armored farmer, I always wondered what to use those giant zucchini for.
Yeah I like my P3AT for summer shorts weather it fits in my cutoff's with ease.

 

[Gary A]

people are bigger now than they were in 1908

Meaning (mostly) “fatter”, but your point still applies. (Maybe more so.)

 

[IdaD]

The gun counter... the pinnacle of reliable information!

IMHO, the problem with 380 handguns is that they are typically small, pocket guns with low capacity, short barrel, and no slide stop. The problem with 380 auto ammunition is that ***most*** loads do not have enough powder capacity (ie - SAAMI pressure specs) to have enough velocity to consistently penetrate 12-18" AND attain good bullet expansion. Most loads either have good expansion in the 8-11" range or don't expand well and end up with .355" holes in the 19-22" range.

While terrible, trite comments like, "Well, I wouldn't want to be shot with it!" still abound, there are so many good small handguns in 9mm Luger, which by the way, has more powder capacity, can attain more velocity, and subsequently can attain both good penetration and expansion with specific ammo in short barrels. 380's are by no means obsolete, it's just that "micro 9's" are the better mousetrap for many people.
This isn't to be down on the 380 auto or anyone who chooses to use or carry it. There is just so much comparative testing data out there today that "gunshop stories" just look silly now. It isn't that the 380 auto will bounce off a person, however, people are bigger now than they were in 1908 and 10" of penetration with good expansion may not be enough, especially at off angles, through barriers, etc.

It's all compromise. I have 9mm pistols and happen to think that's the overall best defensive or duty handgun caliber. You get really good performance coupled with low recoil, high capacity and inexpensive ammo for practice. But there's no such thing as a 9mm in an LCP size package, and there's a lot of value, for me anyway, in having a gun I can slip in a pocket holster and drop in my pocket. There are lots of times when the only gun I can carry is an LCP and that's certainly better than nothing. Also as a civilian my only goal if I encounter a bad guy is to break contact and a 380 is more adequate in that role than it would be for an LEO chasing after a bad guy. Once you jump up a level in pistol size I totally agree that a 9mm is a better choice.

 

[PRM]

Any caliber will kill with proper shot placement. Will a .25 have the same stopping power with a hit to a non-lethal area as a .45...no.

I carry a .380 Ruger LCP when deep concealment is a priority (t-shirt and jeans) and I'm personally OK with the caliber. My preferred choice with an outer shirt is a Springfield XDs 45, 4.0. If I'm cutting wood or working around the yard, I have a NAA Black Widow .22 WMR loaded with snake shot in my pocket.

Guess it depends on what your doing and comfortable with.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

The gun counter... the pinnacle of reliable information!

IMHO, the problem with 380 handguns is that they are typically small, pocket guns with low capacity, short barrel, and no slide stop. The problem with 380 auto ammunition is that ***most*** loads do not have enough powder capacity (ie - SAAMI pressure specs) to have enough velocity to consistently penetrate 12-18" AND attain good bullet expansion. Most loads either have good expansion in the 8-11" range or don't expand well and end up with .355" holes in the 19-22" range.

While terrible, trite comments like, "Well, I wouldn't want to be shot with it!" still abound, there are so many good small handguns in 9mm Luger, which by the way, has more powder capacity, can attain more velocity, and subsequently can attain both good penetration and expansion with specific ammo in short barrels. 380's are by no means obsolete, it's just that "micro 9's" are the better mousetrap for many people.
This isn't to be down on the 380 auto or anyone who chooses to use or carry it. There is just so much comparative testing data out there today that "gunshop stories" just look silly now. It isn't that the 380 auto will bounce off a person, however, people are bigger now than they were in 1908 and 10" of penetration with good expansion may not be enough, especially at off angles, through barriers, etc.

Misconceptions of the Pocket gun.
This caliber war has been going on for too long. I suspect it will never end no matter that the 380 as advanced quite a bit and advancing all the time. I have one of the smallest Micro 9mm made. . But there are very good reasons I carry 380 pocket gun. (too many too list here). There is no Micro 9mm that I know of that is the size of my Pico, Kahr etc. (and they lock back on last round, don't know were you got that). Yes they have short barrels, but does that mean that someone cannot shoot them well? Of course not.
You comment "

While terrible, trite comments like, "Well, I wouldn't want to be shot with it!" still abound does get old, just like a lot of "quotes" in the shooting community. But the fact exist, it is not the saying that is important, but the meaning and seriousness. A 380 can kill you. Regardless, if the attacker is actually killed or you are able to thwart the attack is the most important key.

I personally like this Instructors view point. You might not agree, but you might find it interesting to watch.

 

[Hanshi]

My one and only .380 is the Walther PPK/S at the top. I've had this pistol for a very long time. Center is another Walther PPK/S in .22LR, a Manurhin. Bottom is a 7.65 PPK from WWII I inherited 30 years ago with the German holster. They all shoot exceedingly well and the .380 is a delight. It's often my ccw.

 

[SharpDog]

All I can say is a .22lr has killed a Grizzly, no .380 has done that



https://www.ammoland.com/2017/06/be...-take-the-1953-world-record-grizzly-and-more/

 

[Buckeye63]

I load my little TCP with Underwood 90gr XTP ...
I lean towards smaller revovlers for pocket carry ... But at times the TCP gets the call ... At times , small revolvers are to fat ... and thin is in..

 

[fingerguns]

I wouldn't want to get shot by one. Pretty sure nobody else would either.