.380ACP relation btwn felt recoil and FPS

[bolted_down]

Hey everyone.
been reloading for a while, always safely and with an eye on everything I've read, heard, learned and been able to absorb about the hobby from trusted sources like THR.

I have a Beretta 85 Cheetah that I carry, usually loaded with 95gr Golden Sabres and 95gr Silvertips. My secondary mag is loaded with 95gr Ranger SXT HPs.
All mentioned above, but especially the SXT rounds, simply HAMMER as far as felt recoil, but I can group all pretty well as long as I do my job at the line.
I shoot them all at least once a month in an effort to "fight like I train", should the need ever arise.

**I don't have a chrony as of yet **
My problem has come in trying to mimic these high performance SD loads in my .380 reloads, trying and cut my range costs and shoot more often. My .380 load seems pretty accurate, but "feels" nothing like the commercial loadings.

What powder do you all think they are using in these SD loads? Fast? Slow??
Which powder should I use...HS6, HP38/Win231, or Bullseye
Do you think they (Commercial SD rounds) are loaded to +P for that extra UMMMPH I'm definitely feeling in the recoil??
What is the correlation, if any, in felt recoil and velocity expressed in FPS??

My Beretta is pretty stout for a .380 piece...Should I push my loading a bit harder??
My current load:

3.2gr Bullseye
RMR 95gr JHP
CCI SPP
COL .955"
Est. +/- 900fps

Thanks for your input...greatly appreciated.

 

[rcmodel]

Do you think they (Commercial SD rounds) are loaded to +P for that extra UMMMPH I'm definitely feeling in the recoil??

No.
There is no SAAMI spec for +P .380 ACP. Winchester & Remington are SAAMI members and they cannot load +P because there is no .380 +P spec.

What they do is load to full standard pressure, which a lot of the cheaper plinking ammo isn't.

You can't match it, because the factory loads have the luxury of powders we as reloaders cannot buy.

If I were trying for max velocity and standard pressure I would try a medium burn rate powder like Autocomp, WW231, Unique, etc.

Fast powders like Bullseye will reach max pressure before they can reach max velocity.

rc

 

[zxcvbob]

Bullseye is actually not a bad choice, but Unique is better. I load 4.2 grains of Unique with 95 grain cast bullets and an OAL of .980" That's not quite a max load but close, and Unique is a top-performing powder in this cartridge -- at least with a short barrel like my P3AT.

For something a little more "practice friendly" I use 3.0 or 3.1 grains of International Clays (not the same as regular Clays) with the same bullets.

 

[Walkalong]

By Speer # 13 data with 95 Gr bullets, the top four velocities were with 4.0 Grs W-231, 6.5 Grs AA #7, 3.4 Grs 700X, and 4.2 Grs Unique gave the top velocities. (1027 down to 1006, in order)

Try the Hodgdon Reloading Center for some suggestions as well.

 

[bolted_down]

Certainly appreciated, all three.
Great info and in a timely manner. I love this place!!

I have HP38 on hand, so that's no problem.
I'll rework the load and get back to the range this weekend for some test batches.

 

[zxcvbob]

FWIW, I'm using Quickload to optimize the load for a 2.6" barrel. The Berreta is bound to have a longer barrel than that. (3.5"?) which will make a big difference in the muzzle velocity (moreso with the slower powders.) The order of powders shouldn't change tho'...

 

[RidgwayCO]

The "industry standard" load for the .380 Auto is a 95gr FMJ at 950 fps (190 ft-lbs). I've chronographed the following loads out of my Bersa Series 95 (3.5" barrel):

FPS ... Ft-Lbs ... Commercial Round
------------------------------------------
988 .... 195 ..... Federal 90gr Hydra-Shok
1191 .. 220 ..... Glaser 70gr Blue
865 .... 150 ..... PMC 90gr JHP
947 .... 179 ..... Speer 90gr GDHP
926 .... 162 ..... Winchester 85gr STHP
895 .... 169 ..... UMC 95gr FMJ
928 .... 172 ..... Hornady 90gr HP/XTP
836 .... 147 ..... Fiocchi 95gr FMJ

Please remember, some of this data is more than 10 years old and the manufacturers could well have changed the performance of their .380 Auto loads.

I've had no problem pushing my 90gr GDHP and HP/XTP bullets to 1050 fps for 220 ft-lbs within SAAMI limits, but prefer to keep the velocity closer to 1000 fps. The best powders I've found for reloading the 90gr bullets in .380 Auto for "social work" are AA #2, VV N330, and VV N340. VV N320 should also be excellent, but I think my batch is on the slow end. Power Pistol and VV 3N37 can also be useful in this mode.

Finally, my Beretta 84 with its 3.8" barrel always seems to give more velocity than you'd expect with just the additional barrel length.

 

[MachIVshooter]

The following post contains load data that is above published maximums

The following post contains load data that is above published maximums or bullet weight and powder combinations for which there is no published data. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK

If I were trying for max velocity and standard pressure I would try a medium burn rate powder like Autocomp, WW231, Unique, etc.

Great powder for the little 9 Corto. It's just about all I use.

4.0 grains of W231 behind a 90 grainer is a published load, and will develop better than 1,100 FPS in the longer barrel of the Beretta 84/85. That's ~250 ft/lbs. Out of a shorter barrel, like the P3AT or LCP, this same load is about 950 FPS, slightly faster than Winchester factory loaded 95gr. SXT's, which clock 900 in the little guns.

NOW............

Since, as you've noted, the Berettas are well made and fairly large as .380's go, they can be pushed a little harder.

I have run 4.8 grains of Unique behind a 90 gr. Sierra JHP for a MV of 1,205 avg. in my 84 FS. That's 290 ft/lbs, nipping at the heels of .38 +P (though not with the better SD of the heavier .38 bullets). The Sierra bullets still performed well at (what is probably at the upper limit) of their velocity range.

My preferred SD load, though, is a 102 gr. Remington Golden Sabre. With 4.0 grains of W231 behind it, it'll hit 1,070 FPS from the 84 FS for 260 ft/lbs. Slightly less energy than the Unique load I mentioned, but the heavier bullet penetrates deeper and expands reliably. That load will clock a lower 930 FPS from the P3AT, but as fired from the P3, it penetrated 2 Layers of denim and then went end to end in a 12" block of ballistic clay. This is the recovered slug (the jacket and core separated when I was cleaning the clay out):



I have only run that load in the P3 enough to ensure reliability, as it's asking alot of that little gun. And I wouldn't make such loads regular practice ammo to the tune of hundreds of rounds in any gun, as I'm sure they'd accelerate wear noticeably. But I've run enough to ensure reliability, and the performance is better than what you can buy in this chambering.

 

[Seedtick]

I was finally able to get some T-Series (RA380T) for my 380 a couple of weeks ago. I've not shot any through the chrony yet but they feel like they are hotter than anything I shot before.

I like em.

And they shoot good too. Although I don't think it would be good to feed a steady diet of them to my little Bersa CC.

ST