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.380's are unreliable

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Soke, Sep 15, 2008.

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  1. againstthagrane

    againstthagrane Member

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    cliffy

    where have you seen a .45 acp load that makes 700 joules of energy? i've never seen anything over 550
     
  2. harmonic

    harmonic member

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    Yeah, that's me with the Llama 380. I probably wouldn't get bit today.
     
  3. Onmilo

    Onmilo Member

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    I am going to be the worm in the apple and say I don't feel the .380 is as reliable in older guns as the .32/7.65

    This isn't quite as true when looking at most modern pistols such as the Beretta 84/85, the Sig 230 which was built around the .380 cartridge, or even the lowly Makarov which was designed to correct some faults the Walther pistols had in using larger calibers than .32 acp, extractor, feed angle, bad magazine design etc.

    There are still some modern pistols that do seem to run better in .32acp than they do in .380
    Erma handguns come to mind as do Bersa pistols, the .32s don't seem to wear out as quickly as the .380s
    It could be that fewer .32s were/are sold than .380s and greater numbers usually add up to more noticable problems, my jury is still out on this.
    Then there is the really pukey Smith and Wesson Sigma .380 but this gun was a dog in any caliber.
    The S&W/Walther PPK pistols share the same faults as the original Walther PPK pistols and the few .32s on the market seem to run just fine while there have been numerous problems noted with the .380 caliber guns.

    .380 is really a caliber S&W needs to stay away from,,,,,,,:D
     
  4. krs

    krs Member

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    JJohson said:

    No, not quite "nuff said"

    Are you saying that you load up your Makarov pistol with .380 ammo and are as happy as a clam?

    Most Makarovs do not use .380, they use 9x18 MAKarov which, although FMJ rounds look similar are very much different calibers. The Makarov 9x18 is bigger in diameter by .009" (nine thousandths of an inch). The .380 is also a shorter case at 9x17mm which may bring headspace issues in some pistols.
     
  5. MICHAEL T

    MICHAEL T Member

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    Wow good to know my PPK/S in my pocket has been fired 229 times with out cleaning . I can empty the mag and save a couple onces of weight..
    Most people won't shoot more than a 100 rounds of 380 at range. Then they will clean their pistol at home.
    I can't ever see a SD situtition where I will use 230 rounds. That a lot of spare mags on belt .
    So for 99% the 380 is relieable as it comes.
     
  6. RobNDenver

    RobNDenver Member

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    Others have pointed out that the gun not the caliber of the ammunition drives this discussion. I have a Sig P232 that has never malfunctioned with decent ammunition and a clean action. Actually it never malfunctions with a dirty action after I have fired a couple of hundred rounds through it.
     
  7. Soybomb

    Soybomb Member

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    I think tiny pocket guns are far more likely to have reliability problems than bigger guns. These guns are often chambered in .380, but other calibers too. A giant makarov or ppk sure. A p3at or rohrbaugh? I think the odds aren't as good. And yes dear reader I'm certain you have both a p3at and a rohrbaugh that have fired a millionty rounds without even making the gun dirty let alone malfunction, don't feel like you have to tell me about it.
     
  8. 9x19sig

    9x19sig Member

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    Had one of the stainless Sig P232's a few years back that I had to sell. That was an extremely reliable firearm for me, I ran almost all of the factory available ammo through it as well as at least 2000 rounds of my own reloads, never a problem.

    I would suggest one, but those Ruger LCP's are very tempting, I'm still in line to get one soon hopefully.
     
  9. Don357

    Don357 Member

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    The FEG PA61 is a .380 version of the PA63 which is 9mm Mak or 9x18
     
  10. Rex B

    Rex B Member

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    I have 11 .380s - 7 of them Spanish

    Llama .380s most from the 1940s
    Star .380s
    American Arms Escort
    Colt Govt
    Keltec
    FI Model D

    I can only remember one failure of any kind, when one of the Llamas fired a 3-round burst. That was a 5-minute tweak on the sear spring. It was a 60-year old gun that had not been babied.
    Looking at the list above, the KT is the only polymer frame. I'm on my 3rd P3AT with no issues.
     
  11. 1 old 0311

    1 old 0311 member

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    And red cars are not fast!:neener:
     
  12. JR47

    JR47 Member

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    Hashed out earlier in the thread. Arsenal and Baikal both produced Makarovs chambered in .380 (9x17). The barrel was a dedicated .355", and headspace wasn't an issue. There were even high-cap Makarovs in .380. The Czech CZ83 is also a 9x17 version of the original Model CZ82, in 9mm Makarov. :)
     
  13. the_skunk

    the_skunk Member

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    The Makarov is the gun to buy. Or a Sig p230 (german made) ..... The Sig p232 is a pack of troubles
     
  14. Hypnogator

    Hypnogator Member

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    I wish all of my handguns were as reliable as my Ruger LCP! :cool:
     
  15. makarovnik

    makarovnik Member

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    The caliber itself has a mediocre reputation as a man-stopper.
     
  16. toivo

    toivo Member

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    I'm sorry, but that's just wrong. Red cars are the fastest cars made. :neener:
     
  17. Onmilo

    Onmilo Member

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    Two and a half years later and my opinion really hasn't changed.
    If I had to pick what I feel is a RELIABLE .380 today, it would be a CZ83.
    Just the same, I would chose a CZ82 or 83 in 9mm Makarov caliber before I chose a CZ83 in .380.
     
  18. ET

    ET Member

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    The only reason that the 380 class could be deemed unreliable would be because of the high numbers of pocket size guns being sold in 380acp. The pocket guns just aren't as ftf proof as their larger semi-automatic brethern. They usually need a break-in time to clean up the failures where larger guns are more likely to be 100 % out of the box. Plus these smaller guns work best when squeaky clean. After a box or two at the range many of these guns tend to become erratic because they have a harder time dealing with the dirty conditions.

    The design of these small pistols takes away the very attributes that make a larger gun reliable. The weight of the slide and the strength of the recoil spring are major factors in the reliability of a semi-automatic pistol. Because the slides are so light the springs have to be weaker to compensate. A heavy slide slammed forward by a beefy spring isn't going to simply stop when the tip of the bullet makes contact with the feed ramp. That sucker is going to jamb that round into the chamber where the smaller 380's won't. The attributes that have propelled the 380 to it's current success are also the reasons it struggles to be reliable. It's the size stupid, or better yet, size does matter!!!

    Sure some pocket sized 380 owners have never experienced an ftf, but as a class, the 380 has a high percentage of pocket size guns. Pocket size guns are more prone to ftf's. Well, there you go. I have convinced myself and that's the only person I care about.:neener:
     
  19. ET

    ET Member

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    Using the scientific method I will clear up this argument. We own a red car, an orange car (yes orange), a blue car & a white car. Going back 10 years and looking at the speeding citations issued to these cars I can deduce which car goes the fastest.

    First, the white car (jeep) has amassed 2 total speeding tickets. Both are for more than 10 mph over the limit with one clocked at 85mph. The blue car (Grand Marquis) has accumulated 1 speeding ticket for over 10mph over the limit. The orange car (karmann Ghia) hasn't received a speeding ticket (just a running a red light ticket). The red car hasn't received a speeding ticket...ever.

    From this data I can conclude that the red car isn't the fastest car in the herd. It obviously is one of the slowest. Oh & no it doesn't matter that I drive the blue, white & orange cars & my wife drives the red one.:uhoh: The driver has nothing to do with this study. It's never the driver, it's always the car.
     
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