44 mag load a little slow

[elwoodm]

been working up 44 mag load with slow powders winch 296 and blue dot and faster powders power pistol acc#7. things were slow on fps so i kept crimping more till i got less un burnt powder and flash and fps started to go up. wondering if i should keep the crimp the same on all powders or crimp less on faster powders. btw im using lee dies with fcd and col 1.6 loads acc#7 16.5gr rem 240gr sjhp @1297 fps,acc#7 18.3gr horn 200gr xtp @1420 fps,blue dot 14.5gr rem 240gr sjhp @1307 fps blue dot 16gr horn 200gr xtp @1380 fps, power pistol 13.2gr horn 240gr xtp @1334 fps, power pistol 14.5gr horn 200gr xtp @1410 fps,winch 296 23.5gr horn240gr xtp @1318 fps, winch 296 27gr horn 200gr xtp @1408 fps.

 

[Hondo 60]

Your crimp is a touch excessive, but with slower powders you want a good crimp.

You don't say what primers you're using.
My own experience has been that W296 needs magnum primers.
You'll get extra fps (50 - 100) & more consistent numbers using magnum vs standard primers.

Hope this helps
Good luck

If you go to this other thread, post #6 I uploaded a stolen drawing of proper taper & roll crimps.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=637191

 

[blarby]

I second hondo.

You want a good crimp, but you are clearly deforming the bullet !

Back it off a lil' !

Again seconding Hondo.... are you using magnum primers ? If I line up your load data to hodgdon.... something is amiss.

I would also focus on using one bullet at a time....it would appear you are trying to extrapolate results from one bullet to another, which is tough.

 

[John Van Gelder]

elwoodm

What makes you think your loads are slow.. If your are comparing your results with what is cited in the manuals, that is not relevant. What you ach9eve with your gun with your loads, based on your chronograph results is what is correct.

 

[elwoodm]

winchester lpp fed mag on all loads. i load 357 and never had to crimp this much to get fps up to spec. the only thing i noticed was the fps was more on the rem 240gr than the hornady 240gr but there is more of the bullet in the case on the rem 240gr with the same load. i measured the case neck after size die at .429 but cant measure past that.only bell just enough to start the bullet. all data is with ruger super redhawk 7.5 inch. maybe the dies not getting the case size down far enough to hold the bullet tight. the only powder that came close to printed data was the power pistol but thats kind of fast for 44 mag.

 

[Hammerdown77]

I would not try to achieve the velocities in a loading manual. They are often produced with 8" pressure barrels, which do not have a barrel to cylinder gap like an actual revolver. You will never reach their velocities if that's the case.

Every gun is different. There are "fast" guns and "slow" guns. Lots of factors come into play. You could also be introducing error with your chronographing technique, or your chronograph could be reading slow/fast depending on lighting conditions. Temperature also plays a factor.

So in short, take the velocities they give in loading manuals with a grain of salt.

 

[gamestalker]

The crimp needed for magnum wheel gun cartridges is not a fps factor, it is for the purpose of keeping the bullets from jumping up. If you were to load two matching head stamps with the same charge of 296 or H110, one being crimped and the other not, I would seriously doubt you would see a noticable difference in velocity.

And secondly, published data is only an estimate. Each firearm has it's own dimensional properties exclusive to that firearm. So trying to make a firearm do what the published data estimates, is like shopping for a fast car based on how high the speedometer goes.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Use a firm crimp and a magnum primer with W296 but the crimp you are applying is excessive. You will NOT achieve the published velocity in a real revolver so stop trying. /like said above that velocity is often registered with a pressure barrel and in the case of Hodgdon it's a 10" Hodgdon barrel.

 

[elwoodm]

thanks everybody for the great input i felt i was going too far with crimp im going to back the crimp back to the level where it stopped the un burnt powder being left in the barrel and foot long blast out the barrel. the hornady data is supposed to be with a 7.5 redhawk so i thought i could trust it a bit more. oh well live and learn. a 44mag is a way different animal than a 357 mag. and i checked the after size case mouth again its at .4285 so i dont think the die is a problem.

 

[buck460XVR]

The crimp needed for magnum wheel gun cartridges is not a fps factor, it is for the purpose of keeping the bullets from jumping up. If you were to load two matching head stamps with the same charge of 296 or H110, one being crimped and the other not, I would seriously doubt you would see a noticable difference in velocity.

I for one, would bet you would see a noticable difference in velocities. H110/W296 needs a firm crimp to hold the bullet in the case long enough to help with complete and consistent ignition/combustion. Incomplete combustion equal lower velocities. One reason reduced loads with H110/W296 produce so many squibs is because folks don't think the reduced loads need a heavy crimp. Yes a heavy crimp reduces bullet jump also, but with hard to ignite powders like H110/W296, it also contributes to complete combustion. The OP's statement of crimping till he stopped having unburnt powder in the barrel is evidence of this. I do agree tho that his crimp is a tad excessive.

 

[Mike 27]

Are you shooting a Redhawk 7.5? I re-read all of your posts and I assume this is what you are shooting. My go to load in my SBH Hunter 7.5 bbl is 296 w/Horn 265gr. I use the Hornady data and I do not get a huge flash and it seems pretty clean. I saw you ran I think a 240, and I have not tried that. Maybe the heavier bullet will help. I am with everyone else the crimp is not the answer. Crimp to hold the bullet. Also you are working a ton of loads here. I would work one and then if you are not happy try something else. I love the load I sited above, and my go to powder for my 44 is 296. Hope that helps, as I shoot the Ruger with the 7.5 so thought my 2 cents might help.

 

[jack44]

try about 18.5gr of 2400 thats not slow.

 

[elwoodm]

yes i shoot a ruger super redhawk 7.5 so i was hoping the data in hornady would be close to what i would get. but given every gun gap and forcing cone is different i thought a lose of over a 100 fps was meant i could have another problem all the blast and un burnt kept me looking at crimp even with blue dot powder was all over everything. the crimp i had before when powder was burning better is the one i think i will stay with. i just kept crimping more in hopes it would get me more fps i was looking at 1 thing when the whole picture is what matters:banghead:

 

[elwoodm]

thats a powder that 2400 i need to try the power pistol is faster than i like in a case this size its when i loaded it with 200gr xtp like rc said i dont want to light the weeds on fire everytime i shoot 44mag.