44 mag. vs. 454 Casull

[philbo]

But a .454 *rifle*...

Puma makes one that I've been drooling over for about a year, but I there's several other guns higher on the list first, and not much money for gun buyin' lately.

bob's right on this one. I have a Ruger SRH in 454 and it's almost too much of a good thing. With full power loads it's hard to control, and seems to be at it's best loaded at about 45,000 psi. But, when I picked up a Puma in 454, I discovered what a great round this can be in heavy brush. Got rid of every other lever action I had. The 454 really shines with enough gun to hang on to.

 

[Harley Quinn]

Is it as good as a 45-70 Guide

http://www.impactguns.com/store/026495016500.html

 

[Redhawk1]

saturno_v, can you tell me where you have data to prove that. Maybe you need to go to a Linebaugh seminar. You will be surprised at the results.
http://civic.bev.net/shawnee/digress.html

 

[saturno_v]

saturno_v, can you tell me where you have data to prove that. Maybe you need to go to a Linebaugh seminar. You will be surprised at the results.
http://civic.bev.net/shawnee/digress.html

It's math

More energy and better sectional density = more penetration...you do not need a seminar

 

[Redhawk1]

saturno_v, energy does not give you better penetration. It is bullet design and velocity that gives you penetration. With the proper bullet design and the right velocity (Not To Much) you will get penetration.

When you actually understand ballistics come back and talk to me.
http://www.handloads.com/misc/linebaugh.penetration.tests.asp

 

[saturno_v]

Proper bullet design is a given....I didn;t even mentioned...

You said "It is bullet design and velocity that gives you penetration"...then you got it...speed kills said Roy Weatherby long time ago...

Energy, speed, bullet design, sectional density and then mass give you penetration...

Sectional density and the total energy give you the measure ratio of energy delivered per mass

Because of my degree I know a thing or two about ballistic

http://www.chuckhawks.com/sd.htm

Here some math for you

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectional_density

 

[Redhawk1]

saturno_v , degree or not, quoting wikipedia shows me nothing. I know all the numbers and formulas for ballistics, but doing the math is not reality. Go out and do some penetration tests for yourself. I have, and know what the reality of it is.

If you do have a degree in whatever it is, you did not mention. You would know there comes a time where velocity actually takes away from penetration. It is called resistance. There is a point of diminishing returns.

Just look at the penetration tests I posted, and you will see how most handguns will out penetrate rifles. And the rifles have some times twice the velocity.

It has nothing to do the Math.


http://www.handloads.com/misc/linebaugh.penetration.tests.asp

 

[saturno_v]

At some point velocity, if is too high, becomes a liability because the bullet structure, no matter how stout it is, in some cases can deform or break away....typical a case when a grizzly in Alaska was shot basically point blank with a 300 Win Mag (and premium bullet), the bullet broke away after very little penetration.

The only penetration test I performed with friends, mind you, not very scientific or accurate however you get the overall idea, was some time ago comparing a cheap Mosin Nagant 185 gr FMJ round, a premium hardcast .454 and a partition .454 (at that time my friend just got his Ruger revolver)

The rifle round went completely clean through a reasonably sized oak and a thick wood plank behind that, the two pistol rounds didn't even get through half tree (Bullet shape plays a part too of course).

If you search through the site you will find an old post where the same cheap Mosin round outpenetrated (again a unscientific test similar to mine) a .500 S&W Mag XTP.

The Wikipedia source of that article is "Modern Exterior Ballistics: The Launch and Flight Dynamics of Symmetric Projectiles" by McCoy, a university level tome for ballistics coursework.

Chuck Hawk article confirm this

 

[Redhawk1]

saturno_v , I am done with this discussion, you obviously think you know, and have all the answers. So there is no use trying to talk about it with you.
Believe what you want, I just know facts.
Have a nice day.

 

[saturno_v]

I just reported a fact that I saw with my eyes ..a.30 cal rifle bullet penetrating as much as 3 times in wood compared to a premium ultra magnum revolver bullet...fact no data on paper

Have a nice day too

 

[Harley Quinn]

Here is one for you shooting into steel 3/8 plate, my 22-250 will make holes in it, try that with a revolver

 

[Redhawk1]

I don't shoot animals wearing armor platting.

 

[corpsmanup!]

Sorry to bring up an older thread but how does 45-70 stack up against a 454 or 44 mag or 480 ruger?

 

[anymanusa]

go to the Federal website and download their 'Federal Ammunition and Ballistics Catalog'. I have the 2007 version on my computer, and it will graph numerous Federal load vs. others and give you a really good starting point for factory loads. It will give you many options and allow different inputs and use of their different loads, and then it will graph them for velocity, energy, wind drift and drop. You can compare six load simulaneously.

Thats how I know so much about ballistics.

Seriously, in general, for the Federal loads; 460>500>454>480>44mag.

Of course you can find powder loads and bullet weights to make the outcome different.

 

[Redhawk1]

Sorry to bring up an older thread but how does 45-70 stack up against a 454 or 44 mag or 480 ruger?

The 45-70 can out perform all you have mentioned.

My 45-70 has dropped 3 black bear, one a 15 yard recovery, one a 5 foot recovery and one dead in it's tracks. No matter what you shoot, shot placement is key.