44 special advice

[MovedWest]

I currently load the Remington 210gr SJHPs with 5.7gr of Green Dot for a target load in my Ruger Super Blackhawk (standard primer). I actually use them for shooting during league night at my local indoor range. They're consistent and provide light enough recoil to allow me to re-acquire my target quickly during rapid fire strings.

I like the 210's, but they're not available 8 months out of the year. I need to change out the 210gr for the 180gr SJHP due to availability. I'd like to keep similar performance, but I'm a little fuzzy on my logic.

My manuals always always show a higher powder charge with a lighter projectile. I'm guessing that's to keep the chamber pressure close to the max and get the bullet to perform at its maximum. But the other side of my brain tells me the projectile is lighter and needs less oomph to perform that same, thus needing less powder. The one thing I fear is underpressurizing the chamber and sticking a bullet in the tube or worse, creating a grenade.

Can anyone give me an idea which way I should go with the charge on the lighter bullet?

TIA
-MW

 

[rcmodel]

As long as you keep the speed to 700-750 FPS or more, you will have no problems with sticking a jacketed bullet.

Most published .44 Spl Starting loads with 180 grain jacketed bullets will be in that range and perfectly safe from squibs.

Alliant used to list 6.7 Green Dot with a 180 JHP as a MAX load.
It gives 925 FPS at 12,400 PSI in the 5.6" test barrel.

I would reduce that 10% for a starting load of 6.0 grains and try it.

rc

 

[sniperlongshot]

my standard plinking loads use 5gr of unique, clays, bullseye, and i like to shoot 200 grn lead rnfp for a standard, (i don't do 44mag/spc), but many of friend so. ..........if you want to keep it simple, 5grn powder w/200 grn lead, and a 240grn 3/4 jkt flat point with 10.5grn of unique will do you a lot of justice, and you won't notice a lot of change in your sight adjustment, there will be some, but transitioning from hunting to plinking won't be a big deal, my .45 colts are fixed sights and this a simple lazy mans way to get the most out of you shooters

 

[rcmodel]

240grn 3/4 jkt flat point with 10.5grn of unique

That is very clearly well over any sane .44 Spl load, and getting way up there in a .44 Magnum.

Current Alliant data says 7.6 is MAX in .44 Spl, and 10.3 is MAX in .44 Magnum with a 240 jacketed bullet.

You might want to see THR rules about posting unsafe data.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=27444

rc

 

[sniperlongshot]

i've got friends who have shot that load for the last 50 years, and still do, some of who shot mr kieth himself, there have never been any signs of flattend primer, buldged split cases etc., i and my friends have used these loads in rugers and smiths for over 20 years, and if you look in some of the older manuals from the mid to late 60's these where posted loads before the lawyers got involed, now if your shooting modern firearms these are great safe loads, but they should never be used in older 1st gen colts, or italian repros with thinner cylinders, and weaker frames

 

[rcmodel]

older manuals from the mid to late 60's these where posted loads before the lawyers got involed

No, quite actually they were posted loads before the manual publishers did any pressure testing.

You might also recall Elmer blew up a few guns along the way.

rc

 

[sniperlongshot]

all modern manuals usually put unique in a 44spc w/240 bullet @ 6.3 to 6.5 for the maximum, there are a lot of folks that agree there is a 15% safety margine for these load for the people who always have to slip in a little extra, but the 10.5 load like i say has be a safe load for my friend and myself for most of our adult lives, if you shoot ruger and contender loads us have to use ruger and contender guns, my standard hunting load for my old model vaquero is 10gr of unique,...12 is the bottom of a casul, i've heard and seen 11.5 gr but at a point your pushing past where you need to be to get the job done.

10.5 gives no indcation of hight presure symptoms, is very managable and pleasant to shoot and will take the shoulder off a 350 hog from horseback at close range,

 

[MovedWest]

Thanks for the info RC. I'll give that a whirl.

The 10.5gr loads would be okay in my super blackhawk, but they're still too potent for this use. My HD load is a 200gr XTP over 8.3gr of Unique and even those are more stout than I want to use for league shooting. My magnum plinking load is 10.0gr of Unique under a 240gr JSP, and that's definitely a mild magnum load.

Green Dot seems to lighten recoil up noticably from even Unique's standards.

-MW

 

[sniperlongshot]

my advice is work to where you feel comfortable, take it slow and do what you feel is safe, there are a lot of us old timers out here who do what we have been taught by our friends, it has worked for us for many years, but this is why it's a hobby,.......if there's any doubt, 44 mag brass is always available like 44 spc.,......and it's just as easy to load down the mag as it is to load up the spc.......be safe, and always, have fun and enjoy yourself

 

[sniperlongshot]

and to everyone else, yes he did blow up a few, and that's why in comparison to kieth, we knew where to stop, and i'll go knock on some wood now for saying this, but so far i havn't blown up any..... i've got to run now, so everone have a good day,

 

[CraigC]

...a 240grn 3/4 jkt flat point with 10.5grn of unique will do you a lot of justice...

You need to STOP posting this immediately.

You've done so several times. You're also doing a great dishonor to Keith's fine work. 10.5gr Unique in .44Mag brass is going to be max pressure for THAT 36,000psi cartridge. No telling how high pressure would skyrocket in the shorter Special cases.

Keith's vaunted 1200fps load runs 26,000psi and he never blew up a .44Spl.

 

[Walkalong]

240grn 3/4 jkt flat point with 10.5grn of unique

That is very clearly well over any sane .44 Spl load, and getting way up there in a .44 Magnum.

Exactly right.

We have a rule around THR about posting over load data. It needs to have a disclaimer with it.

there are a lot of folks that agree there is a 15% safety margine for these load for the people who always have to slip in a little extra

Professional ballisticians with pressure equipment from the powder companies, or some guys down at the local gun shop?

 

[CraigC]

I'm all for hotrodding, safely. You can push the limits without finding them. You can also do so with a great amount of knowledge and wisdom. I understand that some folks don't like pushing their .44Spl's like Keith did. I'm one that thinks the .44Spl's spectrum includes the 1200fps Keith load. I also condone loading large frame six-shot Ruger .45Colt's to 32,000psi and custom five-shot guns to 55,000psi.

All that said, there is ZERO credible work anywhere to support this 10.5gr Unique load. It is a gross overload. There are powders to hotrod with and powders to never hotrod with. Unique is one to NEVER hot rod with. Elmer Keith knew 80yrs ago that slow burning powders yield the highest velocities and had the greatest margin for error. Which is why he started with Dupont 80 and then 2400. Not Unique and Bullseye. I would go so far as to suggest the moderators delete the posts that contain it.

 

[1911Tuner]

i've got friends who have shot that load for the last 50 years, and still do, some of who shot mr kieth himself, there have never been any signs of flattend primer, buldged split cases etc.

And they shot it in actual .44 Special revolvers and not in .44 Magnum revolvers?

Uh huh...

That is very clearly well over any sane .44 Spl load, and getting way up there in a .44 Magnum.

Not to mention that the same charge in a .44 Special case will produce more pressure than in a .44 magnum case. A lot more.

I'll go ahead and issue the standard disclaimer:

Use the above mentioned data at your own (considerable) risk.

 

[Eb1]

I am loading 200 grain XTPs with 7.8 grains of Unique. I also load a 225 grain lead with around 6.8 to 7 grains of Trail Boss for puff loads. These are shot from a Rossi M720 3" bobbed hammer model.

I have also carried and shot the Hornady Critical Defense 165 grain load for .44 Special.