.44 vs .45 ballistically speaking

[NorthBorder]

Well, I have a few 45-70s and a Rossi .357 mag. A rifle in 44 mag is just one of those I get because I happen to see it on the shelf. I can't justify a NEED for it. But then, if I had to justify an need for every gun I have I would be down to about 3 or 4.

 

[Slamfire]

My wife has a Marlin that slugs .432. I have it shooting good now but I never would have bought it had I known "normal" ammo would key hole.

I talked to Marlin in 1999. They used 0.431 plus or minus because that was the SAAMI spec. I argued that most 44 bullets were 0.429" but, I was talking to the bottom of the organization, and I don't think it would have mattered even if I was talking to the top of the organization. And that included their rifling twist of 1:38", too slow for anything but 240 grain and less. But that is SAAMI spec too. There are those who do push 265's, but I have not tried, and don't care.

 

[Hartkopf]

I talked to Marlin in 1999. They used 0.431 plus or minus because that was the SAAMI spec. I argued that most 44 bullets were 0.429" but, I was talking to the bottom of the organization, and I don't think it would have mattered even if I was talking to the top of the organization. And that included their rifling twist of 1:38", too slow for anything but 240 grain and less. But that is SAAMI spec too. There are those who do push 265's, but I have not tried, and don't care.

I don't mean to hijack this thread but it could be good info if the OP does get a 44 Magnum rifle. What ended up working really well in my wife's Marlin was 300gr Hornady XTP's over 18.7gr IMR4227. At 75 yards I had a 5 shot group of 2.75". I need to put more of this combo through it because that group size had sort of a flyer and I need to see if I get consistent flyers. It's a soft load but will penetrate really well.

 

[.45Coltguy]

Just to add: My Henry BB steel with 20" barrel has the 1:16" twist. Works very well with 250gr lrnfp bullets. The only bullet I load/shoot thru three .45 Colt's.

 

[Jim Watson]

And that included their rifling twist of 1:38", too slow for anything but 240 grain and less.

There was a shop that worked over a Ruger Deerslayer .44. A good 20 twist barrel with the gas block dovetailed instead of hard soldered. Accuracy was considerably improved, but it was only done a short time before the model was discontinued.

Pac Nor says their .44 barrels are .429".

 

[.45Coltguy]

Jim, Pac-Nor back up and running? Good news if so.

 

[Jim Watson]

They are up and running, not back to where they were, but turning out barrels.

 

[Charlie98]

Hadn't thought of that, but you are right, mostly.
Standards are a .410" bullet shot through a .411" cylinder throat into a .409" groove diameter barrel.
Unfortunately the usual generous SAAMI tolerances apply.

No, true that. I had a beautiful Ruger Bisley stainless in .41, it was one of my Unobtanium List guns. It shot like absolute crap for me. Besides the very poor cylinder fitting, I'm sure it had mismatched cylinder throats, among other things. But, generally speaking, standard sized .41 bullets work for the most part.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

If you already have a couple in .45 LC there's not a ton to be gained from getting a .44 Mag lever gun except more factory loadings. That alone would make it worth it for someone that doesn't reload. But another option you might look at if you want a 92R would be .454 Casull. You could run .45 LC through it but use .454 ammo if you needed more punch for hunting or for bear defense.

 

[NorthBorder]

A 454 would be cool but I've never seen one, even for sale. I did take my henry 45 to the range today for a light session. I put a Vortex 1-4 on it, shooting Hornady 250 XTPs on top of H110. That's probably 44 mag level. Yesterday I took the Rossi for a hike on some gated forest service roads. That is a nice hiking rifle with the 16" barrel.
I really don't need more than that...
Unless a 44 happens along.

 

[Charlie98]

That is a nice hiking rifle with the 16" barrel.

Many years ago I bought my brother a Winchester Trapper in .45 Colt... 16" barrel. That has to be the handiest rifle I've ever used.... in fact, I sort of borrowed it back from him for a few years when I was camping and such in Colorado a lot, it's an ideal camp gun, and he used to carry it on the tractor when he was bush hogging his field.

I've considered bushwhacking my FG down to 16", but realized that's a dumb idea. Marlin had a very short run of 16" stainless .41's... the CCL if I remember correctly... but the prices for those is in the stratosphere, if you can find one.

 

[wombat13]

I talked to Marlin in 1999. They used 0.431 plus or minus because that was the SAAMI spec. I argued that most 44 bullets were 0.429" but, I was talking to the bottom of the organization, and I don't think it would have mattered even if I was talking to the top of the organization. And that included their rifling twist of 1:38", too slow for anything but 240 grain and less. But that is SAAMI spec too. There are those who do push 265's, but I have not tried, and don't care.

I bought a Marlin in .44 mag, but if I had known the above, I wouldn't have. Does anyone know the reason for the different SAAMI spec on bore diameter? It seems like the stupidest d*** thing, but there must have been a good reason for it once upon a time.

For the OP, another vote with the above advice to skip the .44 and either go down to the .357 (or .41 or .327 if you want something uncommon) or go up to .444 or .45-70.

 

[mcb]

I have never seen a good explanation for why the pistol and rifle specs for 44 Remington Magnum use different bore and groove diameters. I have also never had and issue with it either though I mostly shoot jacketed bullets. My current load seems to work equally well in both my M29 and M92

 

[CraigC]

If you already have a couple in .45 LC there's not a ton to be gained from getting a .44 Mag lever gun except more factory loadings. That alone would make it worth it for someone that doesn't reload. But another option you might look at if you want a 92R would be .454 Casull. You could run .45 LC through it but use .454 ammo if you needed more punch for hunting or for bear defense.

If you get the .454 you get a better twist rate. Not quite ideal at 1-24" but at least it's better and will feed ANY bullet you want it to eat.

 

[milsurpguy]

If you buy factory ammo you can buy full power 44mag just about anywhere.
Factory 45colt ammo is going to be about like 44spl.
If you load all your own ammo then it's not an issue.