I used to make a trip to Wayne National Forest Marietta unit for gun week but I choose to stay home now. Nice rifle.I live in western Ohio, but hunt the pretty thick brush and many hills of southern Ohio mostly.
44mag carbine bullet
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mrawesome22-250
Member
Good luck guys. I'm in SE Ohio and will be out this weekend with my son for the youth season.
He'll be toting his new 1894CB 45colt.
He'll be toting his new 1894CB 45colt.
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earlthegoat2
Member
I live in western Ohio, but hunt the pretty thick brush and many hills of southern Ohio mostly.
What scope mount is that?
Good luck guys. I'm in SE Ohio and will be out this weekend with my son for the youth season.
He'll be toting his new 1894CB 45colt.
View attachment 872588
Are you going to use XTPs?
mrawesome22-250
Member
I'm not. My boy is. 250gr XTP at 1320fps.
The 45colt doesn't have 2 different spec for rifle and pistol. The bore on this rifle slugged at .4518" and the .452" XTP is wonderfully accurate out of this gun with a tier 2 load of HS-6.
I'll be using the 1895 in 45-70Govt opening day.
The 45colt doesn't have 2 different spec for rifle and pistol. The bore on this rifle slugged at .4518" and the .452" XTP is wonderfully accurate out of this gun with a tier 2 load of HS-6.
I'll be using the 1895 in 45-70Govt opening day.
earlthegoat2
Member
That 45 Colt should knock em right over.
The 45-70 as well.
The 45-70 as well.
gotboostvr
Member
It's the factory mount and a TRS25. Fits the whole light, handy and cheap motif well.
Toprudder
Member
The 44200 240 XTP is rated to 2200 fps.
I get good accuracy with 300MP powder, 1800fps from my 20” Rossi. I don’t hunt with it so I can’t speak to there effectiveness.
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ThomasT
Member
I have a couple of bags of Magtech soft points I bought years ago from Midway and Cabelas and they measure .431. I used one to make the only 44 mag kill I have ever made. My Marlin has the Ballard rifling in the barrel. I never tried 300gr bullets because they reduce the case capacity too much. And I have gotten my best accuracy with 2400 and not 296 powder.
If using factory loads the Winchester white box 240gr soft points has worked well for my bud from his old Marlin with micro groove barrel. He has killed around 10 deer with those loads and never lost sight of a deer after its been hit.
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25-20 WCF
Member
This tells me that you don’t care at all what the bullet manufacturers actually say about their bullet designs, what matters is that you need to prove that you were not wrong in what you posted. I’ll let the other members decide if your point is valid or not.
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earlthegoat2
Member
It’s pretty well known (at least among the circles I frequent) that 44 mag rifles have larger than the .429 bores of handguns. Most slug out to .431 give or take.
It is also quite well known that .432” lead bullets will shoot best out of these guns. I have heard the Hornady 265 gr FP was made specifically for the 444 Marlin. That is .430. However, .432 lead bullets also do very well in the 444.
The takeaway here is that there are precious few bullets made for the .431 SAAMI bore diameter for 44 Magnum rifles. Sometimes .429-.430 bullets will work fine. Sometimes not.
It is also quite well known that .432” lead bullets will shoot best out of these guns. I have heard the Hornady 265 gr FP was made specifically for the 444 Marlin. That is .430. However, .432 lead bullets also do very well in the 444.
The takeaway here is that there are precious few bullets made for the .431 SAAMI bore diameter for 44 Magnum rifles. Sometimes .429-.430 bullets will work fine. Sometimes not.
mrawesome22-250
Member
I actually couldn't care less about claims from a manufacturer. What I care about is real world experience.
The idea of pistol bullets blowing up on deer when pushed above their design limits didn't come out of thin air. It came from the mouths of guys that it actually happened to.
The idea of pistol bullets blowing up on deer when pushed above their design limits didn't come out of thin air. It came from the mouths of guys that it actually happened to.
buck460XVR
Member
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- 10,049
^^^This, and considering that the chart displayed above shows those bullets appropriate for SD is telling. It's telling me expansion appropriate for SD is not the same as expansion on large game.
I'm a north Ohio guy as well and use .44mag in a Henry big boy and in a Super blackhawk 7.5" for deer. I used to load 240 JHP's for deer, but had a couple kills that could have gone better, I switched to the Nosler JSP's and saw a definite improvement in the wound channels. Last year I decided to mess around with the Hornady 225gn FTX and it's the best yet for me. It really made significantly better cavitation on the two deer I took last year. Not a big fan of having to do the extra trim on the brass to load it, but the 225 FTX over, 20.1 gn of win296 and a magnum primer works well in both the guns I have. I can hold sub 4" groups at 150 yards with the Henry holding over about 10-12".
mrawesome22-250
Member
When I tried the 225gr FTX I noticed Hodgdon doesn't use a shorter case length so I loaded a dummy round at their longer OAL and it worked just fine in my 1894.
May want to give it try if you haven't already.
May want to give it try if you haven't already.
I'm guessing longer they would load fine in the lever but would obstruct in a revolver cylinder. Plus I've already trimmed a couple hundred, its easier just to have the round the way Hornady intended. I can feel comfortable letting someone try it in their gun. I dont know what gun needs the shorter case, but there has to be a reason, even the Leverevolution factory rounds have the shorter case.
Toprudder
Member
The Zero JSP bullets are .431 and shoot very well out of my 20” Rossi. Can’t speak towards their efficacy on game, though. Has anyone here ever used them for hunting?
mrawesome22-250
Member
If I still had any interest in jacketed bullets I would give some a try. Once I found gtbullets.com it's been nothing but super accurate cast bullets going through all my levers and wheel guns.
Jeff Flannery
Member
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- Jan 1, 2018
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- 195
I have a marlin 44 mag and I shot a nice buck with it with open sights in 2010. When I skinned it I realized the bullet blew apart just under the heart. I was using Hornady 240 jhp's. I then shot another deer with 200 gr solid point and had MUCH better penetration. I've then done away with hp's
Ridgerunner665
Member
My carbine is a 41 mag instead of 44... but when I need a bullet that will hold together through bone at any velocity I use Swift A-Frame bullets.
On the left is the 210 grain A-Frame shot into water jugs at 1,705 fps... the one on the right a is a 210 grain XTP fired into water jugs at 1,731 fps.
The XTP stopped in the 3rd jug, core separated from the jacket..... the A- Frame busted the backside of the 5th jug.
On the left is the 210 grain A-Frame shot into water jugs at 1,705 fps... the one on the right a is a 210 grain XTP fired into water jugs at 1,731 fps.
The XTP stopped in the 3rd jug, core separated from the jacket..... the A- Frame busted the backside of the 5th jug.
35 Whelen
Member
I'm with Troy, a .44 caliber bullet is plenty big enough expansion not necessarily needed. I've killed a few deer, a hog and a javelina with plain ol' cast .44 caliber SWC's and they all died right away without complaining. I did, just for gits and shiggles cast a SWCHP and used it last year on a buck. MV from my 7 1/2" .44 Special was smidge over 1100 fps, from 38 yds. hit him behind the left shoulder and the bullet broke a rib or two, went through the off shoulder and stopped under the skin. He never took a step and expansion was perfect.
Expansion of cast HP's is easily controlled with alloy, tin content and the shape and depth of the HP cavity. Not so much with the one-size-fits-all commercials HP's.
A few years ago I used a lever .44 Special and a 258 gr. cast SWC. Shot at a buck a little over 100 yds. away, hit him in the left flank and the bullet travelled up to the juncture of the neck and shoulder. Impact velocity was around 1050 fps and the bullet travelled about 3' through bone, muscle and organs.
Tat bullet illustrates another reason a good ol' SWC works so well; wound channel is large enough and penetration is great too.
Regarding the groove (not bore) diameter of the barrel, I wouldn't get my shorts bunched up over .001". That's only .0005" between the bullet and the bottom of the grooves, and most cast bullets loaded to typical .44 Magnum pressures will obturate and fill that tiny space, and jacketed bullets will probably displace enough jacket material to do the same.
35W
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CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I must be living a charmed life because my Marlin 1894S shoots wonderfully with commercial jacketed bullets. The 270gr Gold Dot in particular under an inch at 100yds. Just over an inch with my 240gr handloads. They have been my bullet of choice for that purpose for years. The 240gr is a great whitetail bullet, the 270gr is slow to expand and suitable for larger game. The GD/DC is a plated bullet. So what? The "jacket" is thick and tough. Even if you push them way beyond their design parameters, the jacket and core will never separate.
I don't use XTP's or any Hornady bullet for that matter. I do not trust them. I have seen them fail to expand. I have seen them come completely unglued and I have seen them separate. They can be right within Hornady's velocity window and still fail in any way.
So it's bonded bullets or cast for me. I have also never bought an oversized bullet for my .44 Marlins. A cast WFN with a wide meplat is devastating on game and while it won't usually stop them as quickly as a rapidly expanding jacketed bullet, they don't fail on deer sized game either and work with boring regularity.
Also no issues with 300gr bullets.
I don't use XTP's or any Hornady bullet for that matter. I do not trust them. I have seen them fail to expand. I have seen them come completely unglued and I have seen them separate. They can be right within Hornady's velocity window and still fail in any way.
So it's bonded bullets or cast for me. I have also never bought an oversized bullet for my .44 Marlins. A cast WFN with a wide meplat is devastating on game and while it won't usually stop them as quickly as a rapidly expanding jacketed bullet, they don't fail on deer sized game either and work with boring regularity.
Also no issues with 300gr bullets.
Can anyone explain the Hodgdon load data for 225 grain bullets (looking at their online data)? They show a max load of 21.5 grains of H110 for the 225 gr. FTX (1,669 fps and 33,400 psi) and a max load of 25.0 grains of H110 for the SPR JHP (1,924 fps and 36,300 CUP). I'm assuming that the 36,300 CUP is higher pressure than 33,400 psi. Is there some reason the FTX can't be loaded to as high a pressure as the Speer bullet?
mcb
Member
Long story short, the FTX bullet is longer than a JHP of the same weight. When loaded to the same overall length the longer FTX takes up more usable case volume. Reducing case volume is going to drive peak pressure up when loaded with the same amount of propellant despite the same bullet weight.
This will blow everyone's mind but 33,400 PSI is slightly higher pressure that 36,300 CUP in 44 Mag. Yes there is no conversion that works across the board, cartridge to cartridge, but within regards to one specific cartridge you can create a fairly accurate conversion as a percentage of the max in both measurement systems. 33,400 PSI is 92.8% of Max (36,000psi) where 36,300 CUP is only 90.8% of Max (40,000 CUP).
This will blow everyone's mind but 33,400 PSI is slightly higher pressure that 36,300 CUP in 44 Mag. Yes there is no conversion that works across the board, cartridge to cartridge, but within regards to one specific cartridge you can create a fairly accurate conversion as a percentage of the max in both measurement systems. 33,400 PSI is 92.8% of Max (36,000psi) where 36,300 CUP is only 90.8% of Max (40,000 CUP).
Well some may like it and some may not. I couldn't find anything but XTP locally and this being my backup rifle and maybe some small deer drives later in the week when everything is hunkered down from the orange army shots wont be that far and I will make them count. Spring time I will be testing every jacketed bullet and maybe some lead. Gun season starts Monday and I don't have time to wait for Midway or others to send something. I appreciate all the help everyone has offered. We have a shop that used to have a large basement stocked with speer, seirra, Hornady and Nosler and now its almost empty.
1.5-2yo 100lbs 4pt shot tonight about 50-60yards with my handi rifle and 240gr XTP pushed by 23.6gr IMR 4227. Buck ran 40yards max after face planting in the field. No exit though but entrance was quarter size and heart had big ole hole in it. I say they work. I didn’t like the not exit part though.
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