45-70 black powder substitute loads?

[moooose102]

i know the original 45-70 government loads were black powder, has anyone used a black powder substiute such as triple 7 for loads in this? my thinking is that real black powder is quite corrosive, and it would be a real pain to totaly dismantle my marlin 1895 just to experiment with this. do you think the pressures would be about the same between black powder and triple 7? also, do you think it would be a problem using jacketed bullets instead of lead? i dont have a problem with solid lead bullets, i just don't have any at the moment. thanks, d.s.

 

[rcmodel]

All of the black powder substitutes are equally corrosive and the guns need to be cleaned just like with black powder. They are not quite as dirty, because the powder charges are smaller, but still wil require through cleaning to prevent gun rusting.


rcmodel

 

[Jim Watson]

I don't think black powder is all that corrosive, Pyrodex is worse, but then I shoot a single shot. If you want to fool with fakes, 777 is good. It is about 15% hotter than black, but your Marlin will handle that easily. Load per Hodgdon instructions, case full of powder up to the base of the bullet with maybe 1/16" compression, a card wad, and a cast bullet with ordinary smokeless lube. Cleans up with tap water, but you must wash the brass, too. 777 is not very corrosive to steel but it will do a number on cartridge brass.
I have not heard anything about shooting jacketed bullets with 777 or the other fake powders and do not see the point.

 

[Eric F]

You should check these folks out they seem to be the black powder authority. http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/board,19.0.html However I use to use cleanshot aka APP and used 2 1/16 inch felt wads with a smear of grease between over 70 gr/vol cleanshot and a 405 gr lead flat nose. Worked great accuracy was decent 1 and 1/8 groups at 100. As a side note this was probably too much powder as the load was more compressed than recomended.
also try this some other good info.http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=319612

 

[Brillo]

In my experience 777 is significantly less corrosive to steel and brass than either Pyrodex or black powder. This is not an excuse not to clean immediately after a shooting session though as others have stated. 777 is also an excellent propellant for the 45-70 Gov. I load my Marlin with 60 grains behind a 405 LFP to achieve about 1250 fps. It's a mild load and pressures are way below the max for these type of modern 45-70 rifles. Do not download though as 777 is most consistent, reliable, and safe when the bullet is seated to the level just touching the powder. There should be no free space. I recall that pressures are about 1/3 the max safe pressure so there are no worries there. Clean your brass in warm water and dry when done shooting. Your brass will last forever.

Also 400 grain jacketed bullets are just fine with the above load, and usually good for slightly better groupings, again, in my experience.

 

[iiranger]

Jacketed bullets!!!

Jacketed bullets do offer alot more resistance/friction than greased lead bullets. Beware.

As said, you got to clean. This is what "made it" for smokeless. A LOT less crud. Hose it with WD 40 or equivelent at the range and hot water, lots, when you get home. Or expect the red crud... happy holidays.

 

[moooose102]

i want to thank everyone for the info, but if i am going to have to tear down my entire rifle to shoot that stuff, it isnt going to happen, at least for me, and for this rifle. i tore apart my glenfeild 30-30 lever years ago, when my mind was sharper, and it was about all i could understand then. i would probably have to take it to a gunsmith just to get it cleaned out. i just couldn't live with a lousey cleaning job, knowing that the powder was in there corroding my rifle would keep me up nights. a dirty gun is like a dirty mind, kind of hard to live with.