45-70 for deer?

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john fisher

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I have been thinking about getting another deer gun, I'm young and I want to get something that I'll be able to use for anything I decide to hunt. I'll mostly use it for medium game but one day I'd live to travel to other places to hunt. I'm mostly into older types of guns and I already have an older 30-30. Are there better options?
 
I have been thinking about getting another deer gun, I'm young and I want to get something that I'll be able to use for anything I decide to hunt. I'll mostly use it for medium game but one day I'd live to travel to other places to hunt. I'm mostly into older types of guns and I already have an older 30-30. Are there better options?

I don’t guess that I fully understand what you’re asking?

You want an older gun? And you are wondering if there are better options than the .45-70?
 
Where do you hunt and what kind of terrain? What tickles your fancy for future hunts in different terrain?

The 45-70 will reliably kill the largest game in North America and just about anything else on Earth. But, there are any number of cartridges that I would choose over it for hunting coyote, rabbits, elk out West, deer at distance, sheep, antelope, etc.

It will handily kill deer at the same ranges as the 30-30 and at much, much longer ranges with the correct loads and much practice ranging and sighting.

If you could tell us more about current and planned future terrain folks could give you better answers than mine
 
45-70 is great for anything and everything but knowing your range and what kind of drop to expect takes practice. It is very versatile, powerful and effective but its not my choice if shots will be over 150 yards. Thats me, some can shoot 45-70 to vastly further distances but a proper sight would be highly recomended. If you hunt in the dense woods or brush its tough to beat it. Keep the projectiles heavy and it has no problem putting a hole through almost anything. A lot of guys try to turn the 45-70 into a modern caliber with new design whiz bang projectiles but it will never be a 30 caliber rifle, respect its limitations and exploit its strengths. Its my favorite rifle caliber but i have others i use for other things as well.
 
ge one they are fun, have great history and it has killed the largest land animals in the world. i can be loaded to cowboy and up power. H&H makes a good point to the 375 is very versatile to.
 
A 45-70 is much more than is needed for deer, and isn't cheap to fire, which means it will be expensive (and painful) to get really proficient with. Any of the classic rounds would probably suit you better, like 30-06, 308, 270, for just about anything in the lower 48. I like the new 6.5 CM- power, accuracy, low recoil. Older guns are nice, but newer designs tend to be more economic and user-friendly.
 
You can get as many suggestions here as their are people posting. When I got back from the war, I used my savings to get an 1895G in 45-70. I contemplated a lot of the available choices in 2003. First, White tails are bigger here. No dog sized deer around here. I also considered that I could load 45-70 on the high end to hunt about anything. Or on the lower end for white tails and the occasional coyote. Are there other choices? Sure there are. Other good choices? Heck yeah. But there is nothing in North America that you can't hunt and cleanly kill with a 45-70. And the loading options are many.
 
A 45-70 is much more than is needed for deer, and isn't cheap to fire, which means it will be expensive (and painful) to get really proficient with. Any of the classic rounds would probably suit you better, like 30-06, 308, 270, for just about anything in the lower 48. I like the new 6.5 CM- power, accuracy, low recoil. Older guns are nice, but newer designs tend to be more economic and user-friendly.
If you shoot factory ammo this is correct. Factory 45-70 is a dollar per round and more, so I hear I have never bought any.
Reloading the 45-70 makes it economical, versatile and fun. I can load my own cast bullets for less than 20 cents per round. 11 or 12 grains of Unique under a 405 grain cast bullet makes a load my wife can shoot. On the upper end, you can load it for whatever your shoulder can take. I put a limbsaver recoil pad on my Guide Gun, makes it very comfortable to shoot.
 
I've owned three 45-70 rifles between 1975 and 2010 when I finally sold the last one. It would be about the last cartridge I'd suggest for this.

I'll mostly use it for medium game but one day I'd live to travel to other places to hunt.

The 45-70 is the most over hyped, over rated cartridge sold today. Back in the 1870's when it was introduced it was considered adequate for deer, but nothing larger. Despite the hyperbole it was never used as a buffalo gun. The cartridge was introduced in 1873. Most of the buffalo were already dead and laws were passed in 1874 banning buffalo hunting to preserve the handful left.

In traditional loadings it basically duplicated 45 caliber muzzle loader performance. That is the minimum for deer in most states and is not legal for larger game in most states. When the 30-30 came along it was considered vastly more powerful at the time. And the 30-30 had been obsolete for 5 years before it was introduced. The 6.5X55 and 7X57 came out several years before 30-30 and are significantly better.

With modern loads the 45-70 is a legitimate big game cartridge, but you are severely limited in range and will have to deal with excessive recoil. From lightweight Marlin lever guns with modern loads the recoil exceeds 375 H&H recoil and comes close to 458 WM. And there isn't an animal on the planet that I'd want to face down where I'd not prefer to have a 30-06 in my hands than a 45-70.

If you are looking for an all around rifle to hunt anything, anywhere buy yourself a decent bolt rifle in 7-08,308, 30-06, 270, or one of about a dozen other possibilities and mount the best scope you can afford on it.

If nostalgia is the goal and if you want to carry a rifle just because it is chambered in a 140+ year old cartridge then buy a 45-70. If you're just interested in old cartridges the 7X57 has killed far more big game than 45-70 including everything in Africa for 125 years. The 30-06 has been doing it for 113 years.
 
If it was me, looking at older cartridges that are seeing a "come back" I'd probably look at a rifle in .35 Whelen. This is especially true if as you wrote, you want "to travel to other places to hunt". The .35 Whelen was introduced to deal with African large game other than "The Big Three", as well as being an excellent round in North America.

LD
 
You already have a 30-30 which is great for deer at close range. A 45-70 would be better on larger animals but it won't extend your effective range any. I don't know where you live but if you plan to hunt in a variety of locations I would step into a cartridge that would extend your range. A 30-06 is old and not cool anymore but it's hard to beat as an all around caliber and it's inexpensive to shoot. A 7mm Rem Mag is very similar with a little better ballistics. Either would be great for anything in North America excluding big browns. A personal favorite of mine is a 300 Wby but you don't get a ton of extra performance over the other two calibers I mentioned in exchange for more expensive rounds and a fair bit more recoil. I still love it, though.
 
I have absolutely no reason to ever buy a rifle chambered in .375H&H, but I sure want one! That and a 416 Rigby. That's the ticket. :thumbup:

I’ve had both a .416 Rigby and a .404 Jeffery. I wound up keeping the .404 amongst the multiple .375H&H’s, the .404 is a gentlemen to shoot compared to a Rigby. Of course I also own a .470 NE double as well just to complete the British trifecta. And have a 9.3x74R double just so the continental rifle trade isn’t left to feel unnoticed.

I need to add a .275 Rigby and a .318 Accelerated Express to the herd to cover the “light bore” rifles as well. I’d have a .369 Purdy Nitro Express double if I could find one that didn’t need massive work and could be had at a decent price. Everyone “needs” a medium bore British double rifle that is nearly impossible to feed.

I’ve put the above mentioned to good use in Africa several times. But the term “need” has nothing to do with my diagnosis of Rifle Looney extrodinaricous.
 
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I'm not sure where your future hunts might take you but let's say you get to hunt Montana. You certainly don't want to see a trophy Mule Deer, Whitetail, Bull Elk, or Antelope at 300 yards with a .45-70 in your hands unless you're one fantastic stalker. If you're spending a lot of money on a hunt you have to be practical about the caliber that you're hunting with.
 
The 45-70 is the most over hyped, over rated cartridge sold today. Back in the 1870's when it was introduced it was considered adequate for deer, but nothing larger.

I can accept your opinion, but don't happen to agree. Modern loads surpass the original 45-70 loadings by miles. Sure you can load it up 1870 style or you can load it 2019 style. It might bite you, but then again so do other light weight rifles. Bullet choices from 300 grain to over 500 grain. Bullets from lead to jacketed to leverevolution. It will kill Georgia deer as well as the big ones we have up north. Last deer I hit with mine dropped like someone pulled all four legs out from under him at the same time. A 300 grain remington jacketed behind a small amount of AA5744 (is there anything you can't load with it) traveling about 1800 FPS is a game killer.

You can take your 30-06 into the deep thick northern NY woods and I'll take my 45-70. We will both come out with a clean kill and a nice white tail. Isn't that what is all about?
 
I think a better option for the short term would be a .44 mag lever since you seem to like lever guns and you can get one in a model of action that has been around for over 100 years or an "old style" action. I was young once, seems like an eternity ago, and finances were my limiting factor. I had one centerfire, a Rem 788 in .308. I shot it A LOT as ammunition was affordable. The same could be said today for any decent BA .30-06. I was really damn proficient with it to 300 yards or more, and if I could have afforded it, would have hunted elk or moose with extreme confidence. The .44 absolutely won't be a do-all gun, but will give you something interesting for your current deer hunting and make a nice option for other close range game you might travel for in addition to being relatively affordable and not punishing at the range. I think you'll find, like me, as your hunting budget expands to include traveling hunts, so will your rifle budget and experience expand and your tastes might change. If you really want a do-everything rifle, you're looking at a bolt action, possibly a BLR in .30-06 or bigger. My personal pick, as I like old guns also, would be a Vintage sporting model such as Rem 721 or 30, or an old Winchester M70. If you can find a Husqvarna in good shape, buy it! I would add a sported M1917 or Springfield IF you really know how to shop a rifle and know what to look out for. The recent trend towards plastic stocks and new super calibers has left a lot of really nice sporting rifles in .30-06 with really nice wood collecting dust on the used shelves and priced to sell. The .45-70 has a cool factor no doubt, but it will be expensive and punishing to feed.
 
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If you shoot factory ammo this is correct. Factory 45-70 is a dollar per round and more, so I hear I have never bought any.
Reloading the 45-70 makes it economical, versatile and fun. I can load my own cast bullets for less than 20 cents per round. 11 or 12 grains of Unique under a 405 grain cast bullet makes a load my wife can shoot. On the upper end, you can load it for whatever your shoulder can take. I put a limbsaver recoil pad on my Guide Gun, makes it very comfortable to shoot.

Somebody mentioned the .45-70 as a brush gun... if you live/hunt in a jurisdiction where that 405gr cast bullet is permissible, I'm thinking 12grs of Unique should do for a deer. That's assuming a classic broadside double-lung shot. I've mentioned elsewhere that this load generally reminds me of my old .45cal muzzleloader and put a bigger whomp on a heavy gong at 50-60yds.

That said, there's nothing wrong with a .30-30 for deer. PBZ's (minute of kill zone) to 200-250yds with 150gr RN's running 2400fps.
 
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The 45-70 is the most over hyped, over rated cartridge sold today. Back in the 1870's when it was introduced it was considered adequate for deer, but nothing larger. Despite the hyperbole it was never used as a buffalo gun. The cartridge was introduced in 1873. Most of the buffalo were already dead and laws were passed in 1874 banning buffalo hunting to preserve the handful left.

In traditional loadings it basically duplicated 45 caliber muzzle loader performance. That is the minimum for deer in most states and is not legal for larger game in most states. When the 30-30 came along it was considered vastly more powerful at the time. And the 30-30 had been obsolete for 5 years before it was introduced. The 6.5X55 and 7X57 came out several years before 30-30 and are significantly better.

With modern loads the 45-70 is a legitimate big game cartridge, but you are severely limited in range and will have to deal with excessive recoil. From lightweight Marlin lever guns with modern loads the recoil exceeds 375 H&H recoil and comes close to 458 WM. And there isn't an animal on the planet that I'd want to face down where I'd not prefer to have a 30-06 in my hands than a 45-70.
So you are still reposting this bogus nonsense and ignoring the responses??? There is no truth or fact in there anywhere. On what planet is a 500gr .458 at 1300fps "vastly" less effective than a .30-30??? We have handily taken 2000lb water buffalo with less. Even Wikipedia is more accurate:

"For a decade after 1873, there were several hundred, perhaps over a thousand, such commercial hide hunting outfits harvesting bison at any one time, vastly exceeding the take by American Indians or individual meat hunters. The commercial take arguably was anywhere from 2,000 to 100,000 animals per day depending on the season, though there are no statistics available."

"In June 1882, more than 600 Lakota and Yanktonai hunters located a big herd on the plains far west of the Standing Rock Agency. In this last hunt, they got around 5,000 animals."
 
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