45-70 for deer?

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As far as a fast handling easy to carry bear protection rifle I agree the .45-70 is a great choice. For actual hunting of even the largest bears I’d take a .30-06 with 200gr controlled expansion bullets all day every day. Phil Shoemaker arguably on of the most experienced brown bear hunters alive wrote an interesting article on that very subject.
I agree, but if i were to actively seek a bear to hunt im not sure id choose 30-06 but i know i wouldnt pick the 45-70. For defense i think the old 45 govt is hard to beat
 
my all weather doe rifles are two of my six 45-70,s, a hiwall short rifle and a older ruger 3. a 300 gr bullet at 2000 fps kills them now, the tree stump shot was after I fell and wanted to check zero, it was still right on.
 

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Sorry for the sidetrack but I’m rather curious why one would choose the .30-06 Spg over the .45-70 Gov’t for brown bear defense.
 
Sorry for the sidetrack but I’m rather curious why one would choose the .30-06 Spg over the .45-70 Gov’t for brown bear defense.

I’m not sure that anybody here said they would choose a .30-06 over a .45-70 for bear defense. What was said is that given the entire package and the range advantage the .30-06 with the right load would be my preference for brown bear sport hunting.

I think a properly tuned, short .45-70 lever gun with proper loads and proper ghost ring sights might be one of the best bear defense guns on the planet, right up there with a good double rifle at a fraction of the Price. If the shooter takes the time and effort to train with it they are devastating short range defensive weapons.

As far as a sport hunting rifle a .30-06 with proper loads will punch through the biggest bear from any angle. It’ll kill the biggest bears just fine. Me personally, I like the .375H&H on big bears but wouldn’t hesitate to carry an 06 and have on many occasions in bear country. As far as the total package for bear defense or back up work goes a big bore, short barreled lever gun would be very comforting. They are simply too range limited for me to want to carry one on a spot and stalk bear hunt.

If you want to give me $25K to go do a quality brown bear hunt down on the Penn with the caveat being I have to use a Marlin Guide Gun or a Wild West lever gun or a .30-06 I’ll book it right now! If I was flipping the bill my .375 H&H is coming along. :)
 
I think it would be a fairly logical assumption that the OP doesn’t reload. I could be wrong. But based off what I’m reading, that’s my guess. And if that’s true, the 45-70 would be fairly expensive to shoot unless shooting LeverEvolution. Factory Winchester 45-70 around here is ~$40 a box and is pathetic when compared to handloaded ammo performance. I can custom load ammo that is in the upper echelon for 45-70 for much less than $1/round.

The 375H&H is even more expensive. But it offers versatility (almost) unmatched in a big bore cartridges. 375 Ruger would be another in the same class. But the Ruger doesn’t offer the nostalgia.

Claims that the 45-70 are obsolete are patently false. Obsolete cartridges aren’t produced anymore. Neither are firearms produced in that chambering. So I’d say the ole 45-70 is alive and well in that regard. At best, one could say it has been surpassed in performance by more modern cartridges. But not one animal I’ve ever shot with mine has filed a lawsuit with the 9th Curcuit claiming it shouldn’t be dead because the cartridge was too old to effectively remove life from said plaintiff.

I have a pretty diverse portfolio as far as rifle chamberings. And my collection pails in comparison to many others. But essentially I have all the bases covered from squirrels to Cape Buffalo. 22lr to 375H&H. If the OP wants something he can walk into any store that sells ammunition and purchase a box, I’d recommend the 30-06. If he wants something with less recoil that will still get the job done on just about everything he could want to hunt in North America, I’d recommend the 7mm-08. If he wants to go crazy and buy something that will be diffferent and versatile and not concern himself with price, I’d say the 375H&H. And if he wants a Classic levergun in a cartridge that 140 years later is still giving big name dirt naps on the daily, then by golly go get a 45-70 and keep giving rescue breaths to an “obsolete” cartridge.
 
Might be a bit under gunned with the non magnum 45-70. I'd look into the 45-90 or 45-120
 
Could even go traditional muzzleloader. Plenty of .50 and .54 calibers available to use either a patched ball, conical, or paper patched bullet. And larger calibers are always another option if more thump is wanted. And it opens up hunting in those seasons and in certain places where modern rifles aren’t welcome.
 
Looking at all your recent posts I'd recommend you spend your money on ammunition for your 30-30, practice on an anatomical deer target trom fifty to 150 yards, find a shooting and hunting mentor and save up for a .308 with a good scope. Keep up your college studies, too.
 
Don’t put yourself into the same common traps a lot of college guys fall into:

1) Rose colored glasses and faulty expectations: most college aged hunters have visions of world wide hunting safaris, regardless of their future ability to make that happen. So you buy a rifle now with the intention of traveling later for elk, bear, what have you... the cost of those out of state points, licenses, tags, taxidermy, meat processing (or gear to do it yourself), and travel will all cost far more than the relatively inexpensive rifle we’re talking about here. Most guys don’t ever leave their own state for hunting, even once in their life, so that “someday rifle” keeps waiting for someday... wasted inventory investment on dreams that would never happen...

2) Underbudgeting your future self: if you ARE able to make these traveling hunts once your degree yields a serviceable income, future you will be able to buy the rifle far more easily than current you. Maybe today you buy a lesser quality or lower condition rifle than you might be able to easily 5yrs from now...?

So what that adds up to for a lot of guys - instead of using what you have and spending the money you might be able to save for real hunting experiences with your 30-30 in the next couple of years, you scrimp towards a sub-optimal Rifle you might never get to use, and you miss out on those experiences.

Looking at all your recent posts I'd recommend you spend your money on ammunition for your 30-30, practice on an anatomical deer target trom fifty to 150 yards, find a shooting and hunting mentor and save up for a .308 with a good scope. Keep up your college studies, too.


Well said!


I suggest passing on the 45-70... you ain't "there" yet.
You don't have a 250+ yard deer problem to solve. You don't have a moose problem to solve. You got a $100/year problem.
If you insist on another rifle, trade in or sell the 30-30 to fund the new rifle.
Also, "range" can be a handicap... wanting to take a deer at longer ranges because you can't get yourself under 50 yards to slug it? Massive power can be a handicap too... because of poor aim/trigger in the excitement (guilty!).
Indian > Arrow
What feels like good sense now will be embarassing in a few years... I know first hand! But money/currency in the bank will always be a good idea. Saved money/currency is you buying options and stability. Buy options for later in life....

Take care and have fun!
 
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Well said!


I suggest passing on the 45-70... you ain't "there" yet.
You don't have a 250+ yard deer problem to solve. You don't have a moose problem to solve. You got a $100/year problem.
If you insist on another rifle, trade in or sell the 30-30 to fund the new rifle.
Also, "range" can be a handicap... wanting to take a deer at longer ranges because you can't get yourself under 50 yards to slug it? Massive power can be a handicap too... because of poor aim/trigger in the excitement (guilty!).
Indian > Arrow

What feels like good sense now will be embarassing in a few years... I know first hand! But money/currency in the bank will always be a good idea. Saved money/currency is you buying options and stability. Buy options for later in life....

Take care and have fun!

This... Work with your .30-30 and save your money. Be calm, cool, and deliberate. If the deer shows up further out then disappears, either you'll see him again, or there's always another deer somewhere.
 
I've never owned a 45-70...but I have a .458 SOCOM that shoots the same bullet diameter and weights. It basically duplicates 'mid level' 45-70 loads. Having killed hundreds of Feral Hogs with it and about a dozen deer, I will say that IF I had known how efficient Big Bore medium Velocity bullets were on game animals...I would have used them long ago.

Yes, you 'should' limit your range (typically 200 yds. and in)....but man do they work well.
 
I’ve read all the replies and agree with most. I do want to say to the OP., don’t read them as insults. Read them as people who have lived in your position telling themselves in the past (you) what they wish they’d have done so that you (standing in the place of them in the past) get the benefit of having their hindsight as foresight. I hope that makes sense. Generally great people on here.
 
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