45-70 load question

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Dmitri Popov

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I'm trying to work out a trapdoor level load for a repro Sharps.

I've got two bullets currently available, a cast 450gr grease groove bullet, unknown mold number, and a 450gr paper patch bullet.

The powders I currently have available are IMR-4198, Unique, and Varget. I'm especially interested in the 4198.

The problem I'm having is finding load data for the 450gr bullets. I've searched extensively online and can't seem to find much, if any info. Any help is greatly appreciated!
 
Is the Hodgdon data for IMR-4198 or is it for H-4198? I know they are very similar powders but I've also been told that they are not entirely interchangeable...

Anyone have any opinions on this?
 
Dmitri Popov said:
Is the Hodgdon data for IMR-4198 or is it for H-4198? I know they are very similar powders but I've also been told that they are not entirely interchangeable...

Anyone have any opinions on this?
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They are slightly different as is the data but if you are loading to the middle of the load range it won't matter. It just so happens the Hodgdon Trapdoor load data lists both 4198 powders. The Max data for each is only 0.5gr apart.
 
Ok guys I appreciate the info, I've tried going to Hodgdon's site but I can't get it to come up on my tablet, and I don't have a PC to use. Can anyone link to it or post/pm with the data they list?
 
485 GR. CAST LFP
IMR 4198 - .458" - 2.540" OAL

Start - 30.5 - 1,364 - 17,500 CUP

Max - 32.5 - 1,439 - 21,600 CUP

rc
 
Ok thank you guys so much! So do you all pretty well agree and believe that the loads for the 450gr and 485gr bullets would be about the same? I'll definately be starting at the lower end, any issues you all forsee?
 
The heavier bullet would use a lighter max charge so you are completely safe using the load data for the 485gr bullet with a 450gr bullet. The max charge for the 450gr bullet will be higher than for the 485gr bullet so going up to the max is safe, especially since you are using Trapdoor load data and there are 2 more sets of load data for the 45-70 using higher pressures.
 
Ok, sounds good. I'm guessing I should expect a little higher velocity with the given data since I'm using a lighter bullet, correct?

Also, I'm curious as to what if any lubricant I'd need to use with the paper patch bullet and a smokeless powder?
 
Ok thanks for the help. One other thing, if I seat the bullet further out than the normal OAL, will this affect pressure? I want to place the bullet a little closer to where the actual rifling starts. I've not ran into this on other firearms I've reloaded for, and just want to check to make sure.
 
No pressure problem, and if anything, it will be less, as long as the bullet isn't jammed into the rifling.

As always, start low and work up the load.

rc
 
Don't use any lube on a paper patched bullet. The purpose of a bullet lube is to coat the bore to keep the lead from tinning to it when the bullet passes thru, the paper keeps the bullet off of the metal.
You can use jojoba oil on the patch or some other type of fast drying wax, but using any lube that will contaminate the paper will do nothing for accuracy, and will give you lots of experience in mining lead from the bore of your rifle.
 
i've found the best all around load for my trapdoor is 28 grains of 4198 and a 405 grain bullet but that will shoot a little high with the rifle sights, a 500 or 530 will fly right on the mark, i had to custom file my rear sight to get the 405's to fly right, but it's a flat shooting load for a carbine out to 325 yards
 
Don't use any lube on a paper patched bullet?????

Wonder why we use paper or cardboard to hone a knife blade razor sharp?

Oh, that's right, dry paper is mildly abrasive.

Rc
 
RC no you don't use any lube on a paper patched bullet, something like jojoba oil or spermatcetti maybe, but any lube that contaminates the paper will cause nothing but troubles.
Some folks use a lube cookie under a patched bullet, but there again it has to be insulated from the paper by a wad of some sort, and then another wad to keep the lube from contaminating the powder.
Some of my best match loads using paper patched bullets use a dry lubed felt wad.
You could never in two or three life times fire enough patched bullets thru a rifle to wear the bore down.
 
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