45/70 story

[jamesinalaska]

Hunting season just ended here in the Great White North, and I bumped into a friend who told me his tale of this year's hunting trip.

On the last day of his 4 day hunt he was in heavy brush and pretty discouraged thinking he was going home with empty game bags when a legal bull walked out of the brush just 20 paces from him, stood, and stared at him. Just stood there, he said, "like he was waiting for an order of curly fries."

So my friend shot him. He fired one shot from his Marlin, directly into the bull's chest and the bullet traveled completely through him (longitudinally, he meant) and stopped at the rump, just under the hide. My friend said the bull "just dropped, no quivering or movement of any kind."

We spoke a bit more and caught up on other topics also, so I didn't ask my friend any other details of his hunt, but he is not into reloading so I'm guessing his ammunition was standard store-bought, 350 gr. fare. And that brings me to my point of this story telling.....and yes, I do have a point:

The topic of "what gun should I carry in bear country" comes up a lot on pages like THR. I carry my 45/70 almost exclusively anymore, and my friend, with good reason, has really taken a shine to his too.

 

[nhcruffler]

I always wanted a 45/70. If one hand loads they can crank it up a bit if they have a STRONG action. I hope you got a nice elk steak from your friend.

 

[Starter52]

Elk, or moose?

 

[jmorris]

It’s a story, just look at how old the 45/70 is, 145 years old. Not to mention factory 45-70 loads barely dribble out the end of the barrel.

Only something new and cool could kill like that. Like a 300 blackout or 6.5 Creedmoor....

 

[Stevie-Ray]

It's definitely a potent cartridge. But I never shoot my .45-70 T/C Contender anymore. A standard Remington or Winchester 300 gr factory load is far too punishing.

 

[ilmonster]

Jmorris, ha, ha, ha... I have an 1895 I picked up a few years ago that I love shooting. Most 350 gr factory rounds dribble out sufficiently slow, that I reload my own. Oh wait, wrong direction. Most 350 gr. factory stuff is sufficiently stout that I took to reloading the 45-70 to get some powderpuff loads I could shoot all day at paper and steel (don't hunt). My loads are 300 gr. RNFP's chugging along at 1,100 fps. Can shoot these all day long, and have around 400 through my Marlin to date. 350 gr. factory loads zipping along at 2,000+ fps will kill darn near anything that walks (as your friend demonstrated) - can you say foot pounds of energy!!! Seriously, this is a great old round that can be loaded from mouse fart loadings to rounds that will genuinely kill anything that walks the earth. And who doesn't like shooting fist size chunks of lead downrange!

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

It’s a story, just look at how old the 45/70 is, 145 years old. Not to mention factory 45-70 loads barely dribble out the end of the barrel.

Only something new and cool could kill like that. Like a 300 blackout or 6.5 Creedmoor....

Yep, must be a myth of the north..

 

[jmr40]

Well there certainly is a lot of myth surrounding 45-70. The 7X57 and 30-06 killed off 45-70 over 100 years ago proving to be far more capable on large game. WD Bell used 7X57 to kill over 1100 elephant and multiple big game hunters, gun writers and others have tested 45-70 alongside many other rounds. It always comes in way down on the list of acceptable rounds for big stuff. Especially with most factory loads. It'll kill stuff, but so will an arrow or spear.

I owned 3 different 45-70's going back to the 1972 Marlin and have owned and hunted with one up until about 10 years ago when I sold the last one. I've come to the same conclusion as most professional hunters. There are better choices.

The truth is that the 1870's and 1880's 45-70 loads were not acceptable even then for anything larger than deer. It was never used to hunt buffalo and by the 1890's was all but a dead round. When the 30-30 was introduced in 1890's it was considered much more powerful. While the cartridge has existed for 145 years it lay dormant and unused until Marlin re-introduced the round in 1972 with a lot of hyperbole and colorful advertising. It's probably taken more game in the 21st century than the 19th and 20th centuries combined.

 

[CraigC]

Well there certainly is a lot of myth surrounding 45-70. The 7X57 and 30-06 killed off 45-70 over 100 years ago proving to be far more capable on large game. WD Bell used 7X57 to kill over 1100 elephant and multiple big game hunters, gun writers and others have tested 45-70 alongside many other rounds. It always comes in way down on the list of acceptable rounds for big stuff. Especially with most factory loads. It'll kill stuff, but so will an arrow or spear.

I owned 3 different 45-70's going back to the 1972 Marlin and have owned and hunted with one up until about 10 years ago when I sold the last one. I've come to the same conclusion as most professional hunters. There are better choices.

The truth is that the 1870's and 1880's 45-70 loads were not acceptable even then for anything larger than deer. It was never used to hunt buffalo and by the 1890's was all but a dead round. When the 30-30 was introduced in 1890's it was considered much more powerful. While the cartridge has existed for 145 years it lay dormant and unused until Marlin re-introduced the round in 1972 with a lot of hyperbole and colorful advertising. It's probably taken more game in the 21st century than the 19th and 20th centuries combined.

You still riding that dead goat? You obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about. A 500gr .458" bullet at 1300fps good for no more than deer? Oh but a 10mm is a proper bear gun? Oh the irony. Funny that we get full penetration on 2000lb water buffalo, which are thicker and more robust than bison, with a lot less. Sorry JMR but all the Big Six have been taken handily with the .45-70 and there is NOTHING on planet earth I would not hunt with the Grizzly 420gr Punch load. Up to and including elephant. You usually come off as fairly knowledgeable but when the .45-70 comes up, you go off the deep end.

 

[js8588]

Well there certainly is a lot of myth surrounding 45-70. The 7X57 and 30-06 killed off 45-70 over 100 years ago proving to be far more capable on large game. WD Bell used 7X57 to kill over 1100 elephant and multiple big game hunters, gun writers and others have tested 45-70 alongside many other rounds. It always comes in way down on the list of acceptable rounds for big stuff. Especially with most factory loads. It'll kill stuff, but so will an arrow or spear.

I owned 3 different 45-70's going back to the 1972 Marlin and have owned and hunted with one up until about 10 years ago when I sold the last one. I've come to the same conclusion as most professional hunters. There are better choices.

The truth is that the 1870's and 1880's 45-70 loads were not acceptable even then for anything larger than deer. It was never used to hunt buffalo and by the 1890's was all but a dead round. When the 30-30 was introduced in 1890's it was considered much more powerful. While the cartridge has existed for 145 years it lay dormant and unused until Marlin re-introduced the round in 1972 with a lot of hyperbole and colorful advertising. It's probably taken more game in the 21st century than the 19th and 20th centuries combined.

 

[tark]

The truth is that the 1870's and 1880's 45-70 loads were not acceptable even then for anything larger than deer.

Uhhhh.... a 500 gr hard cast bullet at 1200 FPS will shoot entirely through a 2000 lb Bison from any angle. Just ask Clint Smith or Mike Venturino. Put down the bong.

 

[jmorris]

The truth is that the 1870's and 1880's 45-70 loads were not acceptable even then for anything larger than deer.

So, are we still good with a .223 on deer or not?



Again

 

[Ks5shooter]

Ill put this against big game any day......

 

[MEHavey]

factory 45-70 loads barely dribble out the end of the barrel.

Uuuuuuuuhhh....

Even medium/"Standard" 45-70 loads -- e.g., 405gr/1,250fps* -- will kill any animal on this continent . . .dead.
Moreover, that same load is point blank on a 5" heart out to 145 yds



* which by sheer coincidence is also the duplicate of a black powder load.
read also, the Sandy Hook Tests from ~140 years ago

 

[JeffG]

Can't talk down to the 45/70 in this house.

 

[BigBore44]

Of course there are more powerful cartridges. There are many cartridges that are better suited for longer range hunting. But stating that a 45-70 is only good for deer is just.....Well, it’s absurd. And if someone had actually hunted with that cartridge, I find it very hard to believe that that person could make that statement with a straight face. Yes, factory 45-70 ammo is pretty anemic compared to handloads. But you have to consider that factory ammo (Remington, Winchester etc) must be loaded to trapdoor levels for liability reasons. But even that ammunition would, and has, taken many elk, moose, and bear over the 50 years.

Maybe I’m a fool, but I’d trust my life to my 45-70 before I trusted it to almost any other rifle I own. In fact, the only cartridge I own that I would choose OVER my 45-70 in a life or death situation involving dangerous game, is my 375 H&H.

 

[MCgunner]

In a strong rifle like the Ruger number 1, the .45-70 can do some amazing things. Even a "weak" black powder load is a hammer on medium game to 100+ yards. I never got into it, but I won't put it down, either.

 

[Axis II]

I shot a large 5yo Ohio whitetail buck last year with a 300gr HP 45-70 handload and somehow hit him in the neck as if he was facing me. I watched the deer collapse right where he stood at 110 yards away. If I was in bear country id have a guide gun with the heaviest, fastest rounds I could have and a 10mm glock with extended mag on a chest holster.

 

[troy fairweather]

my masuer in 45/70 is a killing machine and will touch all holes at 100 if i am having a good day.back in 03 i killed a 450lb Russian Boar at about 100 yards. the boar was pushed back in to a barb wire fence about 4 feet behind it. i shoulder shot it, there was so much energy the 2 plates on the shoulder came out the top of the back. looked like u hit him with a axe . the next day my dad hot a large american bison from 50 yards with hi magnum research bfr in 45/70. the bison made it about 4 or 5 steps before it died. i have both hunts on video but there on disk i dont know how to burn it on to post it.

 

[jmorris]

Uuuuuuuuhhh....

Even medium/"Standard" 45-70 loads -- e.g., 405gr/1,250fps* -- will kill any animal on this continent . . .dead.

That was the part of the post, it was in jest.

I like my 1895, with “marlin” hand loads it’s a bit much (recoils worse than my 50 BMG, like 3 shots = bruise on shoulder) but with factory loads it’s not bad at all.

The 405’s even below 1250 kill stuff dead, I bought a 458 socom just so I could push heavy bullets slowly and add a suppressor. A lot of hogs have died by the “watered down 45-70” but “SOCOM” has a better ring to it...

 

[MaxP]

Well there certainly is a lot of myth surrounding 45-70. The 7X57 and 30-06 killed off 45-70 over 100 years ago proving to be far more capable on large game. WD Bell used 7X57 to kill over 1100 elephant and multiple big game hunters, gun writers and others have tested 45-70 alongside many other rounds. It always comes in way down on the list of acceptable rounds for big stuff. Especially with most factory loads. It'll kill stuff, but so will an arrow or spear.

I owned 3 different 45-70's going back to the 1972 Marlin and have owned and hunted with one up until about 10 years ago when I sold the last one. I've come to the same conclusion as most professional hunters. There are better choices.

The truth is that the 1870's and 1880's 45-70 loads were not acceptable even then for anything larger than deer. It was never used to hunt buffalo and by the 1890's was all but a dead round. When the 30-30 was introduced in 1890's it was considered much more powerful. While the cartridge has existed for 145 years it lay dormant and unused until Marlin re-introduced the round in 1972 with a lot of hyperbole and colorful advertising. It's probably taken more game in the 21st century than the 19th and 20th centuries combined.

I have killed a truckload of game with revolvers that can't even match milquetoast .45/70 loads in the realm of paper ballistics. That said, the .45/70 - loaded properly - is more than a match for anything and everything that walks the face of this earth. To say differently indicates ignorance.

I killed this water buffalo with a .45 Colt load (a hot one, but by rifle standards, a 90-lb weakling) and to call it decisive would be an epic understatement. I have killed a number of large bovines to include Cape buffalo with revolvers that don't look like much on paper.

 

[Choctaw]

So, are we still good with a .223 on deer or not?



Again

Yes, it's fine, but let's not talk about that right now.

 

[MCgunner]

Well, when someone tells me the .45/70 ain't enough for deer, I just gotta wonder what IS enough.

 

[horsey300]

Well, when someone tells me the .45/70 ain't enough for deer, I just gotta wonder what IS enough.

Something labeled cheytac magnum

 

[jmorris]

Something labeled cheytac magnum

You know, I have been using my 458 since I got it but this year may be the one to haul the 50 BMG up into a blind and hit a hog with API just to see what happens...