.45-90 vs. .45-70

[saturno_v]

A simple question for the experts.....can these old buffalo cartridges other than 45-70 (45-90, 45-110, 45-125, 50-90, 50-110 and others) be loaded at high pressure with modern smokeless powders like the 45-70 nuclear loads?? Does the brass hold??

There are modern rifles chambered for them, capable to handle the higher pressure??

If yes, what kind of performance (velocity and energy) can you get out of it??

Thanks!

 

[Maverick223]

A simple question for the experts.....can these old buffalo cartridges other than 45-70 (45-90, 45-110, 45-125, 50-90, 50-110 and others) be loaded at high pressure with modern smokeless powders like the 45-70 nuclear loads?? Does the brass hold?

Don't know how much of an expert I am, but yes, as I said earlier that is exactly what I intend to do with my Browning 1885 when I have it re-chambered to .45-120...I think I'll call the new cartridge my .458 American Express...cause it isn't really a .45-120 anymore but it is an American design (original and my iteration), it is more of a "express cartridge", and it will get you where you want to go (on both ends). I also considered using .45-90, .45-100, or .45-110 but there is no real advantage to these as the .45-90 is still a bit small for the super-nuclear loads that I want (450gr. solid at about 2200fps or so) and the brass cost for all the others is pretty high and the largest case, the .45-120 will last the longest with like loads. The brass strength is the same for all (using like manufacturer) because they are based on the same one. The best brass you can get is for the .45-120, which has Norma available, but of course you can size this to any of the aforementioned.

There are modern rifles chambered for them, capable to handle the higher pressure?

I don't know of any (at least any that advertise it as such), but that is undoubtedly due to the lack of a SAAMI specification for nitrocellulose powder in any of the larger .45s.

If yes, what kind of performance (velocity and energy) can you get out of it?

I plan to match .450NE performance out of my .45-120, but it could go much higher if I chose to raise the pressure to what I currently load the .45-70 for (about 45kPSI). I have no desire to go that far because the recoil will be substantial with my planned loads and tremendous if I push it higher, the brass will have reduced life (and it isn't cheap at $2.00+ per case), and there just isn't anything that a 450 grain solid going 2200fps can't kill.

 

[ArmedBear]

The only problem with this is that anything you need .450NE to kill, can and will kill you. Quickly.

So I'm not sure about a falling block single shot with a .45-120. It could take a long time just to draw the spent brass all the way out of the chamber...

 

[rattletrap1970]

That is correct, you can use .45-70 in a .45-90
I used to have an 1886 Winchester in .45-90 and it shot the .45-70 just fine.

 

[Maverick223]

The only problem with this is that anything you need .450NE to kill, can and will kill you. Quickly...So I'm not sure about a falling block single shot with a .45-120....

Very true...I didn't say I needed it...I have no plans for Africa and the .375H&H would be fine for most game, like Cape Buff., that I might go after if I did, as well as a planned big bear hunt...but that doesn't stop me from wanting it anyway.

FWIW, I would like to use it for a Am. Buff. (Bison) hunt some day. Be sorta nostalgic to use that iron, even with the extra nitro powder (which i'll admit isn't necessary).

 

[ArmedBear]

Want a good buffalo hunt, use black powder. Anything else is cheating yourself of the experience.

 

[Maverick223]

Want a good buffalo hunt, use black powder. Anything else is cheating yourself of the experience.

I know, I know, but the stuff is dirty and I don't like cleaning up after it...but I think I have plenty of time to ponder the thought and might do that after all.

 

[ArmedBear]

http://www.rb-17.com/

Cleans black powder with a rod and patch, not a bucket of water.

Works great on corrosive milsurp ammo, too.

Cleaning a falling block isn't hard. It's just a bore and a little around the chamber. Cleaning a black powder revolver, now THAT is a pain in the ass.

 

[CraigC]

I agree, cleaning a cartridge single shot will be a snap. The metallic cartridge pretty much keeps all the fouling in the barrel and out of the action. Percussion revolvers are much more work and you can't kill a buffalo with one.

 

[Maverick223]

Thanks for the reference, AB. As effective as it may be, water + steel is a combination that I don't like, with this product I might have to start using the black stuff after all.