45 ACP headstamps

[cocare]

I just purchased a Springfield XD in 45 cal, headed to the gun show and bought a bag of mixed head case hulls and got a rapid introduction to military brass. I have a real mixed bag compared to the normal mix I get for my 38, 357, 44, etc.

I am obviously looking closely at brass condition and am discarding rather than deciding if it is good enough. Is there a good source for the different 45headstamps and brass that is not safe to reload?

I have tried to review the threads here and have noted the discussion of S & B but not much else.

 

[robertbank]

Other than Amerc, I would reload everything else. No reason not to. Some of the military brass I have lasted longer than anything else. Reload them until they crack at the mouth or split. I have got some cases I have started to name they have been reloaded so many times.

Take Care

 

[Lumino]

Edit:
I did a quick search on the site and answered my own question.
Thx.

--------------------------------
Bob,

How come you wouldn't reload Amerc. I just received a shipment of factory loads that had been back ordered from Sportsmansguide.

I'm curious.

Thx.

 

[Lennyjoe]

Amerc is bad brass. The quality is poor, flash holes are almost always off center and they fail fairly quickly.

 

[ReloaderFred]

In order of thickness for .45 acp brass, I've found Winchester to be the heaviest, with Federal next. PMC comes in right behind Federal and R-P is the thinnest. S&B is pretty good brass, but the primer pockets tend to be a little tight, but I don't mind that at all. I just prime those with Winchester primers and they work fine.

As for A-merc, it's a waste of raw materials. They have no quality control and primers will fall out of the primer pockets. I know one guy that tried glueing them in, just to use the brass. I scrap it out whenever I run across it.

Military brass is good brass to load, once you remove the primer crimp, if necessary. Sometimes it isn't, but I run it over the primer pocket swage just in case.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[cocare]

Thank you

Thanks for the information. I solved part of the problem by buying 500 Federal once shot brass on ebay last night. Sounds like I should be ok with my mixed brass as long as I am not shooting +p loads which I will not be doing anytime soon.

This is really great. I have been reloading pretty much by myself for the past 10 years. Most of my buddies are into rifles and shotty guns. Don't get me wrong, I like my rifles but I haven't found a large number of pistol reloaders. This site has already been a great help.

 

[SingleStack]

I've had problems with nickel-plated casings. They seem to be less malleable than brass and have crushed a few during crimping and seating. Nickel cases looke neat, but don't seem as resilient as brass.

 

[ReloaderFred]

Your experience with nickel cases is pretty common. The brass is thinner to accomodate the nickel plating and there is a chemical reaction between the nickel and the brass that weakens it over time. It's especially noticable in .38 special brass, with it's thinner case walls. Nickel .38 brass will not last as long as brass cases. Among Cowboy Action shooters, where they go through a lot of .38 brass, they tend to avoid nickel cases or use them in matches where they aren't able to keep their brass.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[P0832177]

You just have to take the AMERC brass and toss it. I have reloaded 45 ACP brass till the headstamp could not be read! Heck I have some military brass headstamped 1942 and it hell for stout!

 

[Johnny Guest]

Some more random thoughts

ReloaderFred - - In your ranking of brass longevity, where do you rate IMI and Speer brass. Speer used to be very stong and heavy. Seems to me that, lately, Speer brass has become somewhat more flimsy - - Dunno if thinner, or more brittle, or something.

I tend to agree about nickel plated .38 Spl cases having a shorter life than unplated. Dunno about other calibers. An exception - - in my experience -- is some old, really OLD Western headstamped .45 ACP plated cases I still have. I acquired a bunch of this when I started loading .45 back in the sixties, and I still run across the odd case in my stuff. Some has been fired so much the headstamp is barely readable under strong light, and the brass is showing where the nickel is wearing away. Still good. Of course, .45 ACP is lower pressure than a lot of cartridges.

I would think that the cowboy action shooters would prefer unplated brass for another reason: That it just appears too "modern" to go with period gear. But in that regard, does anyone know when nickel brass first becme common?

Best
Johnny

 

[ReloaderFred]

Johnny Guest,

I would place IMI (TZ & TZZ headstamps) on the heavy end of the spectrum. I just loaded up a bunch of .45 brass and there was some TZZ mixed in. A lot of people don't like to load it because they have to remove the primer crimp, but that's not a problem for me.

Speer recently changed the way they make brass, eliminating one step in the process, which in the long run saves them quite a bit of money and time. They also occasionally have outside vendors make some of their brass. I know for certain that they had some of their 357 Sig brass made by an outside vendor, because I asked them at the SHOT Show if they did and they confirmed it. In fact, I'm supposed to send them some 357 Sig brass that has unusually small flash holes that they said they weren't aware of. I discovered it when I started decapping some with a Dillon Carbide 357 Sig die and the decapping pin wouldn't go through the flash hole.

Anyway, I would put Speer .45 brass in the middle of the group.

I form a lot of .45 acp brass into .400 Cor-Bon, and I've found that Winchester, Federal and Top Brass (made by Scharch Manufacturing) are the three brands that stand up the best. In fact, the Top Brass also comes in +P and has some of the most precise primer pockets and flash holes I've ever encountered in mass produced brass. You can tell it was made by a machinist.

I've got some nickel plated .45 brass that's been around awhile, too. I just prefer the brass cases, since nickel is a pretty hard substance and I don't like it when it peels off.

The Cowboy Action Shooters go through a lot of ammunition, so a lot of times they shoot what they can get their hands on. I don't know when nickel plating was started on cartridge cases, but it was very common on pistols in the late 19th century for rust prevention. The technology has been around for a long, long time.

I started loading in 1963, and there was a lot of nickel plated brass around then. In fact, the gun shop I used to buy brass at had two big "fishbowls" of .38 brass. One had small primer pockets and the other had large primer pockets and you got to choose which you wanted. I'll bet a lot of reloaders on this forum have never seen .38 special and .357 Magnum brass with large primer pockets.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Primersinmyshoe]

I work at an indoor range, and get all my brass there. Look out for WinNT and FedNT, these take small pistol primers. I toss those and AMERC, S&B, and any headstamp I don't recognize.

What about S&W headstamped 45acp brass? I run across these once in a while. Does anyone know the source of these?

 

[ReloaderFred]

In the 1970's, S&W came up with the idea of marketing their own ammunition, but they didn't have an ammo plant, so they contracted with Fiochi to have it made with their headstamp on it. You'll find some that is headstamped "S&W-F", which was the early batches of ammunition. The later batches were just headstamped "S&W". They even made ammunition they didn't make guns for, such as .380 auto.

All this occured while they were owned by Bangor Punta. It was also during this time that they contracted with Howa for the Model 1500 rifles marketed under the S&W brand name. They also marketed two shotguns, a pump and an auto. The pump was a poor design, but the auto was a very good design, as were the rifles. After S&W dropped the rifles, Mossberg marketed them under their name. Now Howa markets it's own rifles.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[larryw]

Anyone else had problems priming the newer Speer brass with the slightly cupped head? I have very limited success with the stuff using both Federal and Wichester primers on my 550 and have taken to culling it from the empties.

 

[The Bushmaster]

All you people that are throwing away all that Winchester and Federal NT brass ever try loading it using small pistol primers? I have and I have found that it shoots across my chronograph just as well as any other brass. Ya just gotta be more alert when sorting yer brass is all. Which I am anyway as I sort by head stamp as it is. If you haven't tried it, you should...

 

[ReloaderFred]

The Bushmaster,

I'm with you, cull not, want not (except A-Merc, of course). I load it all until it either splits or the primers won't stay in.

As for the new Speer, I prime that on my Hollywood press, which will prime anything that can be primed. If the old Hollywood won't prime it, it can't be primed.

I'm old fashioned in that I don't prime any brass on my progressive. I prep all my brass in such a way that once it's ready for the progressive, it's tumbled all pretty, the primer pockets are cleaned, it's trimmed if needed and primed. That way there are no misfires or hangfires. I haven't had a high primer in so long I don't remember when the last one was. Must have been sometime back in the early 70's or so.

Fred

 

[BluesBear]

Early S&W brand ammo did use Fiochhi supplied brass. But after Bangor-Punta purchased the Alcan company they maunfactured their own cases using the Alcan machinery.

S&W ammo was damn good stuff and many people don't realize that it was S&W that developed and first marketed Nyclad ammo. Only after S&W got out of the ammo business did Federal purchase the rights and make it under their own name.

One of the biggest mistakes S&W ever made was divesting themselves of all of their "support" companies.

 

[robertbank]

The nickle brass was designed to stand up to humid conditions better than brass brass. It certainly won't carrode as quickly. I toss the stuff I get into the recycle bin.

Take Care

 

[Ron Brooks]

Nickled Brass

My understanding was that the nickled cases came about so that the brass cases won't turn green with verdgris<sp?> from being in the leather ammo belt loops.

Of course it didn't hurt that it looked cool and make you feel like the Lone Ranger if you had lead bullets too.

Ron

 

[BluesBear]

You're both correct.

Brass cases in leather loops just don't tolerate humid weather very well.

Another reason to shoot up and rotate your carry ammo.