.45 ACP - More Recoil

[MZ5]

I can understand the different perception of the 9 vs 45 (jabby vs pushy). I know that I can get my fairly light Kahr 9mm with 124s back on target noticeably quicker than my 5" steel 1911 (45) with 230s when I'm doing double-tap drills, though.

All I know _for sure_ about recoil is that recoil calculators are among the most useless things anyone has ever come up with.

 

[94045]

I can understand the different perception of the 9 vs 45 (jabby vs pushy). I know that I can get my fairly light Kahr 9mm with 124s back on target noticeably quicker than my 5" steel 1911 (45) with 230s when I'm doing double-tap drills, though.

All I know _for sure_ about recoil is that recoil calculators are among the most useless things anyone has ever come up with.

I think gun fit has a lot to do with it for me

Shield .45 ACP with 230 Hardball is slightly quicker than 9mm with 124 NATO. The .40 S&W is slowest with any ammo. I attribute that to the larger grip of the .45 more than anything.

In an identical platform .40 is always slower than 9mm.and .45 is slower yet but other than a 1911 it's hard to find identical platforms.

 

[Hangingrock]

I've been shooting 1911 series pistols in 45ACP since 1964 (56Yrs) what is this recoil/muzzle-rise/flip you speak of??? I'm rather indifferent to it. As for the 9X19mm somewhat less in years but also what's this recoil/muzzle-rise/flip one speaks of. Yes its there but its not a nettlesome issue!

 

[Kleanbore]

The interesting thing is most people thought the 9mm was jabbier and the .45 pushier but overall recoil essentially the same.

Yes, I realize the 9mm was roughly 12.5 oz lighter but it was interesting that the two most common pistols of the era where subjectively similar in total recoil.

Not exactly a scientific test, but not at all surprising.

A lighter firearm, a lighter load in terms of momentum....

 

[JR24]

I think gun fit has a lot to do with it for me

Shield .45 ACP with 230 Hardball is slightly quicker than 9mm with 124 NATO. The .40 S&W is slowest with any ammo. I attribute that to the larger grip of the .45 more than anything.

In an identical platform .40 is always slower than 9mm.and .45 is slower yet but other than a 1911 it's hard to find identical platforms.

Pretty much agree here. Odd outlier for me is the Glock 21 is faster for me than a steel 1911 despite the weight, trigger and bore axis indicating the 1911 should recoil less.

I attribute it to the size and width of the Glock grip adsorbing the recoil better and getting me on target faster, feels softer too as well.

This is not the case between a 9mm 1911 and Glock 17, the 1911, even a lightweight, feels softer shooting and I'm back on target faster.

So, yes I think hand fit is also a significant factor in my view.

 

[94045]

I think gun fit has a lot to do with it for me

Shield .45 ACP with 230 Hardball is slightly quicker than 9mm with 124 NATO. The .40 S&W is slowest with any ammo. I attribute that to the larger grip of the .45 more than anything.

In an identical platform .40 is always slower than 9mm.and .45 is slower yet but other than a 1911 it's hard to find identical platforms. Correction: Other than the S&W M&P M2.0 9mm/.40 (For some reason they are essentially the same for me).

Corrected my above post. Had a brain fade. My main carry gun is no slower (for me) in .40 S&W which is why it isn't a 9mm but it is an exception for me.

 

[ATLDave]

People's brains are synesthetic when it comes to sounds and feel. If you're shooting 124 NATO ammo, that's generally going to be very blast-y ammo - lots of pressure still in the barrel when the bullet "uncorks," supersonic crack on the bullet, etc. Even if the gun isn't moving as much, many people will translate noise/blast/flash into perceived recoil.

Give people two similar-weight guns with both running subsonic loads (such as a 147 9mm and a 230 45 ACP), and virtually nobody will perceive the 45 as being lighter/softer.

 

[94045]

People's brains are synesthetic when it comes to sounds and feel. If you're shooting 124 NATO ammo, that's generally going to be very blast-y ammo - lots of pressure still in the barrel when the bullet "uncorks," supersonic crack on the bullet, etc. Even if the gun isn't moving as much, many people will translate noise/blast/flash into perceived recoil.

Give people two similar-weight guns with both running subsonic loads (such as a 147 9mm and a 230 45 ACP), and virtually nobody will perceive the 45 as being lighter/softer.

I do know I definitely think S&B NATO (We got 1270 fps out of a Beretta 92 in that lot) is stouter than Blazer 115 FMJ in a P365. May all be in my head.

 

[kBob]

AK103

Yeah well back then the trigger of every P35 I tried with or without magazine safety gone was so much worse than even a shade tree mechanic could do to a Series 70 that I stayed with the Series 70.

Heaviest recoiling pistol (by feel) I ever shot was an FIE .45-70 derringer. Oww, it hurts to remember it,

Having taught women of little experience and 14-15 year old boys to shoot the 1911A1 I find the claims of .45 ACP heavy recoil to be over done.

-kBob

 

[94045]

Having taught women of little experience and 14-15 year old boys to shoot the 1911A1 I find the claims of .45 ACP heavy recoil to be over done.

-kBob

My Kimber CDP II Compact (LW Officer's Frame / 4" Barrel / 230 gr + P) is a marshmallow. A PPK .380 on the other hand...

 

[TonyAngel]

It isn’t about the caliber. It’s about the gun. Or should I say ergonomics. I’m often asked by friends to teach them to shoot.

I take them out with the .22s to work on their trigger work and acclimate them to the noise and the idea of recoil.

then, I take out the the .45s. 200gr loads with about 5gr of accurate no 2. One 1911 and one XD. They all love the 1911, but much more often than not, they shoot the XD better. I was at first surprised, but I’ll admit that even I have moved to plastic guns for the majority of my shooting.

 

[Mosin Bubba]

AK103

Yeah well back then the trigger of every P35 I tried with or without magazine safety gone was so much worse than even a shade tree mechanic could do to a Series 70 that I stayed with the Series 70.

Heaviest recoiling pistol (by feel) I ever shot was an FIE .45-70 derringer. Oww, it hurts to remember it,

Having taught women of little experience and 14-15 year old boys to shoot the 1911A1 I find the claims of .45 ACP heavy recoil to be over done.

-kBob

45s aren't bad at all. 40s are billed as the middle ground between 9mm and 45 ACP, but I find their recoil to be a lot more annoying than both.

 

[Spats McGee]

In equal weight handguns, .45 will produce higher recoil energy, but at a lower recoil velocity. More push than punch.....

I rarely stop to think about recoil energy vs. recoil velocity, probably because it is so rarely mentioned here. We typically talk about recoil as though it has only one component. I guess recoil velocity would explain the perception of 9mm and 40 being more of a smack, and 45 being more of a push.

Pretty much agree here. Odd outlier for me is the Glock 21 is faster for me than a steel 1911 despite the weight, trigger and bore axis indicating the 1911 should recoil less.

I attribute it to the size and width of the Glock grip adsorbing the recoil better and getting me on target faster, feels softer too as well.

I've also long suspected that a little frame flex in the polymer pistols also helps disperse some recoil energy.

So, yes I think hand fit is also a significant factor in my view.

It isn’t about the caliber. It’s about the gun. Or should I say ergonomics.....

IMO, felt or perceived recoil is PFM (Pretty Freakin' Magical), and found at the intersection of Caliber, Pistol Weight, and Hand Fit. And that last one can't be calculated or crunched into a number. It's why it's so important to rent a gun before buying if you can.

In terms of felt recoil, one of the worst pistols I've ever shot was a Sig P232. Give me a gov't profile 1911 in .45 every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

 

[I6turbo]

Fit of gun to hand is also relevant here. A lightweight Ruger LCR in .38spl has less felt recoil for me than a heavy steel S&W model 36 J-frame, because the LCR has a contoured rubber grip and just fits my particular hand better. Other people might say the opposite.

I'm one who would say the opposite. I HATE to shoot my LCR in .38 Special. With either the factory grip or the aftermarket Hogue grip, the gun is practically painful to shoot (not to mention providing piss-poor accuracy). Other than being light and easy to conceal, I can't find a redeeming quality in that gun, and I have less than zero interest in shooting it. I've seen others post that they don't find the gun to be objectionable in terms of recoil, and that they even like shooting magnums in the .357 version, but I just can't imagine it. Definitely a YMMV situation, I guess....

 

[JR24]

I'm one who would say the opposite. I HATE to shoot my LCR in .38 Special. With either the factory grip or the aftermarket Hogue grip, the gun is practically painful to shoot (not to mention providing piss-poor accuracy). Other than being light and easy to conceal, I can't find a redeeming quality in that gun, and I have less than zero interest in shooting it. I've seen others post that they don't find the gun to be objectionable in terms of recoil, and that they even like shooting magnums in the .357 version, but I just can't imagine it. Definitely a YMMV situation, I guess....

I used to use my .38 LCR to warm my hands up to shoot .44 mag or hot .357 mag from real guns.

Always made even hot .44 feel pleasant in comparison.

 

[Patocazador]

.45 ACP recoil has never bothered me in 1911-type autos even though I am recoil sensitive with big bore rifles. The 9mm pistols have a quicker kick but recoil in pistols is usually not a problem because they can flip, push or whatever when shot with just extended hands and there is no real problem except recovery time.

The worst recoil in handguns is definitely with DA revolvers. They can actually cause pain to my hand(s). Until I had my 4" model 29 Magna-ported, it hurt. IMO the easiest handgun to shoot with really hot ammo in large calibers is a Bisley SA revolver. It rotates in the hand and is almost a pleasure to shoot.

 

[I6turbo]

I used to use my .38 LCR to warm my hands up to shoot .44 mag or hot .357 mag from real guns.

Always made even hot .44 feel pleasant in comparison.

Makes sense. My L-frame .357s are absolute pussycats compared to the .38 LCR. I might use the LCR to warm up my hands to shoot a 300 Winchester Magnum without a stock -- just the barreled action.

 

[Slamfire]

I made this 9mm into a competition pistol I could use in Bullseye Pistol



This is my 45 ACP



Now in theory, the 9mm ought to be less fatiguing due to the less recoil. But, as it turns out, whereas you can down load the 45 ACP and still have it accurate at 50 yards, you have to push the 9mm 115gr between 1150 and 1200 fps or it won't be accurate at 50 yards. My 50 yard 45 ACP load is 4.0 to 4.1 grains Bullseye, 200 H&G 68 LSWC, going at 740 fps. The recoil difference between the two is hardly noticeable, and the 9mm has a sharper recoil impulse, all things considered. No one shoots the 9mm's for that reason. And I have asked, everyone who has, stated the same issues as me. I have seen a number of 32S&W Longs, that round has very little recoil and shoots knots out to 50 yards.

 

[PO2Hammer]

Today I shot a 45 Gov't model, USP 45, and a Kimber Target II in 9mm with mid range 45 target loads and near-full power 9mm loads.
The 9mm Kimber was clearly softer shooting than the Gov't 45.
And the USP was softer than the Gov't 45, and about equal in recoil to the Kimber.
I know that with a powder puff loads a Gov't 45 feels quite pleasant and is superbly accurate, but for heavier loads I'll take a 9mm or my poly 45 for shooting comfort.

*** eta the 9mm Kimber dominated the shooting today, had much better speed and accuracy with it than the other 2. I really feel in total control with the 9mm 1911.