.45 ACP Win-231 load a little dirty, any advice?

[IMtheNRA]

I recently found a very accurate load that my G-21-C and SW-625 both love: Winchester 230-gr FMJ, 6.0gr of Win-231, COAL=2.26 +/-0.003, Winchester LP primer, and Winchester case.

I worked up from 4.5 gr, and the 6.0 gr load was by far the most accurate.

The only issue is that my brass is left with a few flakes of black ash and the guns get a little bit of smokey gray "scum" after shooting.

I'm wondering if this is normal for Winchester 231 or should I work on the load some more in an attempt to increase pressure with a shorter COAL.

What do you think?

 

[Shmackey]

Sounds totally normal. Presumably you could play with COAL the tiniest bit, assuming you can find published data to guide you, but you'll be adding a variable into your equation again--and you're already very happy with the accuracy.

Win 231 (HP38) isn't filthy but it's not the cleanest powder in the world either. Generally speaking, when your main goal is to maximize accuracy, you're willing to forgo some other desirable characteristics like maximum cleanliness. A light load of Unique or an ultralight load of BE will make your results seem sparkling clean in comparison.

That being said, you can also put together extremely accurate rounds with Clays or WST, which are very very clean.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I recently found a very accurate load that my G-21-C and SW-625 both love: Winchester 230-gr FMJ, 6.0gr of Win-231, COAL=2.26 +/-0.003, Winchester LP primer, and Winchester case.

I worked up from 4.5 gr, and the 6.0 gr load was by far the most accurate.

The only issue is that my brass is left with a few flakes of black ash and the guns get a little bit of smokey gray "scum" after shooting.

I'm wondering if this is normal for Winchester 231 or should I work on the load some more in an attempt to increase pressure with a shorter COAL.

What do you think?

I find W231 to be as clean as most other middle of the road powders but not squeaky clean. (but what powder really is under all circumstances?)

As for shortening the OAL, I WOULD NOT do that with that load. Hodgdon lists a max charge of only 5.3gr W231 but with an OAL of 1.200". Your slightly longer OAL will give you some addition room on the top for increasing the powder charge but IMO a charge weight of 6.0gr is already well within the +P range. Add to that you are using a Magnum strength primer, well you know what I'm now getting at. I think that load is already well overpressure and would not shorten the OAL or add any additional powder.

My favorite load is made with a 230gr bullet, both FMJ and LRN over 5.5gr W231 with an OAL of between 1.255" and 1.265". (depending upon the bullet used)

 

[GLOOB]

You should probably add a disclaimer, here. That load is well beyond Hodgdon's recommended maximum. Oops, too late. ^

 

[jim243]

What do you think?

Just a guess, but you are not burning up all the powder in the case, some is burnning in the barrel. Drop your load to 5.6 grains of W-231 with a OAL of 1.20 for hollow points or 1.25 for RN bullets.

Should take care of your issues.
Jim

 

[IMtheNRA]

While my load does exceed Hodgdon's data for a Hornady bullet seated to COAL of 1.2", it is still below Sierra's max of 6.2 grains for a Sierra bullet seated to 1.26".

I do not have access to data for a Winchester bullet, so I worked up the load from 4.5 grains. My C-model Glock did not even cycle consistently until the load got *above* 5 grains.

While I don't doubt that some powder burns in the barrel, the test loads shot significantly dirtier below 6 grains. At 5 to 5.5 grains, there were unburnt yellow flakes which disappeared as I approached 6 grains.

Frankly, I'm not that worried about minor dirt because I'm very happy with the accuracy of this load. On the other hand, why NOT continue to tinker with something that already works well?

 

[popper]

there were unburnt yellow flakes

Never seen that before, from 231/ hp38 or any powder. Sure that isn't brass or copper?

 

[4895]

If you want to try powders, Bullseye works well in .45 auto for most people. I run about 5.0 grains with a 230 grain plated Berry's at about 1.245" oal. I use the cheapest standard primers I can buy and it works well for me and my 4" commander.

I have never had problems with 231 except in .44 caliber rounds before (went with Unique). How is your crimp?

 

[XD 45acp]

I have tried 4. Red dot, green dot, Power Pistol, and Bullseye. Bullseye was the cleanest out of those 4.

 

[[email protected]]

The unburnt yellow flakes is powder that the coating has burned off of. To the best of my memory all of the 45 acp caliber guns that I have shot will get a grayish residue in the area of the gun behind the chamber. Most of this expierence is with glocks though. I was at the range several years ago working up some loads for a new to me glock. While at the range we began talking about pressure signs and case head expansion. An older man at the range suggested the following to me, (its not word for word but close); When a round is fired, the case swells in the chamber and makes a seal to seal the chamber from the gasses. In 45acp the brass is so thick and the pressure is so low, that the case does not make a tight seal and a small amout of gases are allowed to be blown back into the chamber. He offered this as a explaination as the reason you are overpressure when you get to the point that you have a measurable difference in the case head, and why my glocks trigger bar was covered in a grey grit.

 

[LiveLife]

How is your crimp?

+1. For .451" diameter jacketed bullets, I use .471" taper crimp.

 

[beatledog7]

Bullseye. As long as your load is somewhere between "slide won't cycle" and "signs of overpressure" it burns very clean.