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.45 Colt or .45 ACP?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by Pants, Apr 3, 2008.

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  1. Pants

    Pants Member

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    This question will require a speculative answer, I guess.

    A hundred years from now, which caliber will be more widely available:

    .45 Colt or .45 ACP?

    I assume that since .45 ACP is more common today, it probably will be in the future.

    Or to put it another way, if ammo were scarce for some reason, which caliber would you rather have your revolver chambered in?

    (Cross-reference this thread for reason why I'd be asking such a silly question: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=350982)
     
  2. XMP

    XMP Member

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    I'll bet .45 acp will be far more common. However, I wouldn't like betting on the availability of moon clips, in a time of scarcity.
     
  3. Pants

    Pants Member

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    Moon clips wouldn't be an issue.

    The Ruger Blackhawk Convertible would solve the dilemma by offering cylinders for BOTH calibers, but aesthetically I can't stand that big giant front sight. I know they're handy, but they detract from the classic lines of the SAA clones.

    In a perfect world, somebody here could point me to a classic SAA clone with a .45acp cylinder, but I've done quite a lot of searching and I'm not too hopeful.

    Somebody prove me wrong, please!
     
  4. AR-Trvlr

    AR-Trvlr Member

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    If I had to depend on store-bought or scrounged ammo, I'd go with .45 ACP. If I had access to reloading equipment, I'd go with .45 Colt for the greater flexibility of light to heavy loads.
     
  5. RUT

    RUT Member

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    If it's a "cowboy" gun I'd go .45 Colt. Anything else I'd go .45 ACP.
     
  6. Rudy Kohn

    Rudy Kohn Member

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    I think .45 ACP will be more common in the future than .45 Colt... even though I really like .45 Colt.

    But, in 100 years, something even better may appear and become popular!

    Pants, USFA's single action is offered with dual chamberings in .45 Colt and .45 ACP. It's expensive, though (Like, about as much as a real Colt). You might ask them if they'll do it for their more economical single-actions.
     
  7. Phil DeGraves

    Phil DeGraves Member

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    I've had both a Uberti Remington 1875 clone and a Uberti 1873 Colt SAA clone in 45 ACP. And the Ruger Blackhawk.
    (The Remington clone was the one I liked best).
     
  8. Pants

    Pants Member

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    Phil,

    Were the Remington and the Uberti both N.I.B. when you bought them?

    Did they come witht the .45ACP cylinder?

    Or did you buy one after-market?

    Thanks,

    Pants
     
  9. Phil DeGraves

    Phil DeGraves Member

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    They were both previously owned. The Remington had only the 45ACP cylinder; the SAA had both. At the time, Uberti offered them in those choices so they were not aftermarket cylinders. You could buy extra cylinders from Uberti if you only had the 45 Colt and wanted the ACP and vice versa.
     
  10. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    None of us will care 100 years from now.
     
  11. Pants

    Pants Member

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    How very pithy....





    I'm buying these as heirlooms, smarty-pants.
     
  12. Beagle-zebub

    Beagle-zebub Member

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    I genuinely worry that you won't be able to legally own them at all. Logic and rationality are often outgunned by coal-fired conventional wisdom.
     
  13. Steve C

    Steve C Member

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    Anything the military uses will be available until they quit using it and the surplus socks are used up. Thus the .45 ACP will be around for a long time.

    The availability of the .45 LC will depend upon the demand for the ammo. As long as there's demand for it, manufacturers will continue to make it. So its supply really hinges on the Cowboy action game popularity or any others that may come up in the future.
     
  14. owlhoot

    owlhoot Member

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    Pants, I currently have two Colt clone SA's with both acp and lc Cylinders. One is by Uberti and the other is ASM.

    I'm sure they are still available from Uberti although I did purchase mine several years ago.

    I've seen several of the Ruger Vaqueros with twin cylinders also. Check out Gun Brokers and Auction Arms for awhile. You'll find one easy enough.
     
  15. Murdock

    Murdock Member

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    Gee, that reminds me

    This thread reminds me that I have to get an auxilliary .45 Colt cylinder fitted to my Smith M25-2!
     
  16. Redhawk1

    Redhawk1 Member

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    I don't think either will ever go away.

    As far as which round I would rather have, the 45 Colt of course. I can do a lot more with a 45 Colt than I could with a 45 ACP.
     
  17. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    Pants,
    When I think of an heirloom I think of something classy. For the most part any 100 year old gun won't be shot much because it's well, 100 years old and it will also have a sentimental value. IMO buy a nice Single Action .45 Colt and also buy 1000 rounds of ammo for it. If you vacuum seal the ammo it will be good 100 years from now in case your heirs decide they want to fire off 50 rounds in the "old revolver." (I guess you should vacuum pack the ammo boxes separately)
     
  18. shu

    shu Member

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  19. BlindJustice

    BlindJustice Member

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    Probably Both, but more .45 ACP than .45 Colt

    I'm going to wade into the discussion here because there isn't too much noise about

    Basic number of weapons in each cartridge

    Colt SAA from early 1870s onward... a few
    double action revolvers but the convertible SA
    revolvers weren't popularized until Ruger came out
    with the Blackhawk.

    1911 by the end of WWII Colt and other makers close to
    3 million semi-atos in .45 ACP. The M1917 by S&W for WWI
    totaled 150,000+ as well as the Colt New Service M1917s
    COlt stopped making the big frame DA in .45 ACP or anything
    else, but S&W has been making the big N-Frame for the .45 ACP
    in just about continuous production. So, I think we can safely
    say that the clones of the 1911 most likely outnumber the
    clones of the 1873 Colt SAA.

    Another cartrdge that has to be added into the discussion is the
    circa 1920 .45 Auto RIm. LIke the .45 ACP it is designed from the
    ground up for modern smokeless powder. If you wnat to argue about
    handloads the .45 Auto RIm has a stronger case with it's thicker than a
    .45 COlt rim, and can be loaded to higher performing loads out of the
    S&W N-frames than the .45 ACP. Yes, you can stretch the brass in .45
    COlt with the RUger Blackhawk and with heavier bullets, but it
    depends on what you want to or have to shoot at doesn't it?

    I have a Marlin 1894 20" barrel in .45 Colt I got it after reading
    about Cowboy Action shooting It seems the COwboy Action guys load
    down their rounds to 650 FPS so they can shoot quickly and make a
    nice show and be crowned King of the Cowboys with the 19th Century
    paradigm of the SA revolver, Lever gun and old design shotguns. The
    trick cartridge is the .45 Cowboy Special(CS). I read the .45 CS is simply
    a .45 COlt shortened to 0.898"

    0.898 inches in length and a light comes on,

    BINGO... it's the same length as the .45 ACP and .45 Auto RIm.
    THe Cowboy Action guys use this because it's easier to load the shorter
    case as well as when a Marlin is converted to this shorter case
    length the "Spoon/Carrier" that transfers the cartridge from the lower
    tubular magazine to the chamber is a shortened custom piece. The
    conversion from riflesmiths who do this work also slick up the action and
    trigger, but guess what the lever travel is shortened by the lesser length
    of the 0.898 inch cartridge both on the down stroke and up stroke so it's
    a faster action. I have a riflesmith who will convert my Marlin 1894 from
    .45 COlt to VOILA! .45 Auto RIm. THe only addtional conversion work will
    be inlet the chamber for a 0.0910 Fim vs the .45 COlt 0.0610 and adjust
    the extractor. THe gun will also be able to convert back to .45 COlt with the stock "Spoon/Carrier"

    WHy on earth would I want to do this?

    I told the rifle smith I what I had for handguns

    Well, I'm a .45 ACP Nutter,
    My favorite Handguns
    S&W 1911 Stainless Steel (SS) 5" Bbl.
    ! S&W 625 5: Bbl. .45 ACP & .45 Auto RIm.

    and I wanted a handy carbine in .45 AR for HD/SD
    a handy camp gun out to 60 or so yards. It'll be
    maybe a little less bullet weight but more rounds in
    the tubular magazine and a shorter stroke for repeat
    shots. ANd it's always convertble back to .45 Colt
    if I run into some horde of that ammo. I could even get
    a RUger Blackhawk as another option although it would sit
    a lot since I prefer the modern S&W DA revolver.

    It's not about hunting 4 legged but it'll do if a cantankerous
    bear or something showed up mut mainly it's 1920s firepower
    that doesn't alarm by it's looks.

    I will probably get a shorter barreled 1911 variant as well as a
    shorter barreled S&W DA revolver, sometime in the future as well as
    a convertible Blackhawk.

    Comments?
     
  20. BlindJustice

    BlindJustice Member

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    Hey, why is this in the Revolvers section yah want to weight it twoard the .45 Colt it belongs in the General Handguns area.

    Oh, BTW I thought about breaking in my 1894 Marlin in .45 Colt so the last time I stopped at a gun store in nearby Moscow ID, I asked for a box of
    .45 COlt - None to be had but they would order it. So, I had my pick of 5
    different types of .45 ACP and kept the Marlin on the shelf and shot my 1911 and 625 at the range last saturday instead of the Marlin.
     
  21. Pants

    Pants Member

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    I think this kind of sums it up.


    Thanks for the input. I'd never even heard of .45AR. But then again, I don't reload, so I'm in the dark about a lot of things when it comes to ammunition.
     
  22. BlindJustice

    BlindJustice Member

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    One of the factors that a convertible Single Action (SA) revolver with a
    .45 COlt and a .45 ACP cylinder suffers in accuracy with the .45 ACP is that
    the .45 ACP case length is 0.898 the .45 COlt is 1.28 inches that is a
    DO THe Math, 0.40 approx. travel in the cylinder before it escapes the
    cylinder and hits the forcing cone. Can you say wobbble ?

    The S&W .45 ACP revolvers have a cylinder that at the rear edge is not as close to the frame as it's .357/.41/.44 Magnum or .45 Colt N-frame cylinders but also at the front of the cylinder unlike the SA convertibles the .45 ACP/AR S&W DA revolvers have a bigger gap from the frame to the shorter in length cylinder with an appropriate longer fbarrel with forcing cone reaching
    it - this shorter in diameter but built to the length of the case makes for less
    mass in rotating the cylinder and makes it superior in double action shooting

    THis isn't something to be poo poo'ed as a non-factor, it is a physical advantage, as well as the shorter case being easier to insert as well as extract.

    Besides the larger number of platforms the .45 ACP/AR offers much more than the nostalgic .45 Colt in many ways.

    R-
     
  23. BlindJustice

    BlindJustice Member

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    Hey, Pants,

    I have some .45 Auto RIm in stock from Reeds Ammunition & Research

    185 gr. Golden Saber JHP @ 1,050 FPS
    225 gr. Barnes XPB HP @ 944 FPS
    The Barnes bullet is solid copper with a big hollow
    cavity and built to expand but retain 99% bullet weight

    I also had R.A>R. load up 500 rds of .45 AR using the
    Leadhead 200 gr. hardcast SWC @ 1,025 FPS they
    ran a little over 42 cents a round so the specialized stock
    offerings with High Perf. bullets I keep ordering in small numbers
    as they cost more and the 200 gr. SWC is my practice loads
    since you can't walk into most gun stores and expect them to have
    .45 AR in stock. I'd like to also order some AR ammo from Buffalo
    Vore and Double Tap to try those loadings out.

    To go with my S&W N-frame .45 ACP/AR I have a S&W 617 with a
    6 inch Bbl. - same weight as the N-N-frame and .22 LR is available
    every where and great practice/plinking on a budget.
     
  24. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    There'll be 1911 freaks by the thousands in 2320 insisting that it's a better defensive arm than a phaser set on kill. :rolleyes: I own both, but as rounds go and in a Ruger Blackhawk, much prefer the Colt round. It can do anything a .44 mag can and is still potentially better as a defensive round, platforms not-with-standing. Of course, I'd rather take my P90 into a fight (if I just had to) than my Blackhawk.

    Just one word, especially for the .45 Colt. You owe it to yourself to.....


    HANDLOAD
     
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