.45 vs .357 buffalo boar for bear defense

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Yo Mama

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Hello everyone. We are planning on going on an extended trip where black bears are known to frequent. I really only have two options to carry a handgun on the trip, so please do not suggest a larger caliber as of course I would love to have a 44 Magnum but it's not in the cards. My choices are strictly 45 ACP in a 1911, or a 357 revolver 6 shots.

I am planning on getting Buffalo Bore rounds, and yes the ballistics on the 357 look superior however I have a few concerns. First I have six shots in the 357 as opposed to 9 in the 1911. More of a concern of mine however is permanent hearing damage that would be caused by the 357 in close-quarters proximity with my family, as opposed to the temporary discomfort of the 45. Also I'm a much better shot with the 1911.

Not sure if I should also put ease of a mag chance in the equation of a charging bear....but there is the reloading speed.

So what gets the nod: revolver in 357 or 1911 in 45?
 
If those were my only choices I would do one of three things. 1911 with 255 RCBS KT over the max load of Unique. 357 with the hottest, heaviest swc I could get. Find another vacation spot.
 
If those were my only choices I would do one of three things. 1911 with 255 RCBS KT over the max load of Unique. 357 with the hottest, heaviest swc I could get. Find another vacation spot.

Thanks, but im looking forward to the trip: redwoods and Yosemite.
 
Which ever one you can shoot best while scared half to death. Say at a target 7 yards off. Some people can hit better with a DA revolver, so a SA auto. Either one with hard cast bullets like Buffalo Bore makes.

Here is the Buffalo Bore 'Outdoorsman' for .45 ACP.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=395

255gr. HARD CAST-FLAT NOSE) 925 fps from a 5 inch barrel 1911.

And for the .357 Outdoorsman.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=162

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1375 fps from a 4 inch barrel.

Deaf
 
I have had the questionable pleasure to encounter a few black bears while out camping. 1st and foremost I will say when confronted with a sow and her two cubs on a camp ground trail, I found that walking backwards away from the bear while putting my hand on my revolver makes one feel less than confident. I always carry bear spray with me during the summer when out camping. I would carry which ever hand gun you are the most confident with. I would use a handgun as a second choice with bear spray as the first choice. This is just my opinion and so far in about 5 encounters with bears I have not had to fire one round. I have been able to walk away from every encounter. I will say I do wear a bear bell when out hiking and it seems to work for me. This is just my 2 cents worth from the Big SkyCountry, Montana.
 
I have had the questionable pleasure to encounter a few black bears while out camping. 1st and foremost I will say when confronted with a sow and her two cubs on a camp ground trail, I found that walking backwards away from the bear while putting my hand on my revolver makes one feel less than confident. I always carry bear spray with me during the summer when out camping. I would carry which ever hand gun you are the most confident with. I would use a handgun as a second choice with bear spray as the first choice. This is just my opinion and so far in about 5 encounters with bears I have not had to fire one round. I have been able to walk away from every encounter. I will say I do wear a bear bell when out hiking and it seems to work for me. This is just my 2 cents worth from the Big SkyCountry, Montana.

Sound advice and glad you were ok.
 
both will give you permanent hearing damage, the .357 will just be a little worse. I would go with .357, for black bears, and would not consider it a poor choice. They're not grizzlies. I would get a jacketed soft point, or a flatnose hardcast, and stay away from the hollowpoints, on ANY BB ammo intended for anything bigger than 100lbs. Ive chronod their 45+P 230 gr hollow points at 915FPS, which isnt that hot, and can be easily repeated with handloads. Their .357 158gr however came in at 1550 FPS, showing 840ft lbs energy, twice what that 45 did, far exceeding any handload listed in any manual. 45 was a 5" barrel, 357 was 5 and a half
 
So I've lived in Alaska about 15 years now. Spend most of the summer and early fall in the field.

Most folks up here would tell you that the best weapon you have is the one between your ears, not the one on your hip.

I will also second the viability of bear spray and its use as a second line of defense (IF the wind is in your favor). Your first line of defense is practicing good bear safety habits when in the field. Your third line of defense is whatever is on your hip.

USFW did a study some years ago of bear-human encounters. In every case, bear spray was more effective in deterring bear behavior than a firearm. In every case where people used firearms, people suffered more serious injuries than in cases where bear spray was used. The study, in my view, is a bit skewed in that does not take into caliber of firearm or the shooter's skill level. Still, I think there is a take away from that.

As to your two gun choices: hands down, no question, not even a discussion-go with the revolver. Notice I said revolver, not 357. The revolver is going to be much quicker to use in a panic. No safety, no slide, no nothing. Don't worry about reloading; you're not going to have to time regardless of what gun you use. Not even Jerry Micullek is that fast. (A bear can close a 40 ft gap between you and him in mere seconds. If you don't already have the gun in your hand, its too late.)

Whatever caliber you choose, shoot hard cast, wide flat nose projectiles in the heaviest weight bullet you can find. (In 357, that is going to be a 180 grn HSM. I personally prefer the HSM over the Buffalo Bore, but that is simply a preference; I have no evidence to suggest one is better than the other.)

The reason for the hard cast wfn bullet is penetration. A ear's hide is thick. His scull is even thicker. (Head shot on an oncoming bear is the worst shot to take.) You need something that will penetrate deep and smash through bone to get to vital organs. Anything less and you're just pissing the bear off.

This need for penetration that dictates a WFN bullet is yet another reason NOT to take a 1911 (or any other auto loader), although a small number of guys up here swear by the 10MM Glock, but I noticed they are always under 30 yrs of age.

Invest in some OPSak brand odor proof bags for all your food and other scented items. Check out a Bear Keg bear resistant food container from the Park Service office. Don't carry food into your tent. Don't sleep in the same clothes in which you cooked dinner. Make noise on the trail. Be aware of your surroundings. Enjoy your trip.
 
I highly recommend you watch this video on bear safety, bear behavior, bear deterrents, etc. It's almost an hour long. I show this to all of my Alaska Studies students when we do our unit on outdoor survival.

 
You clearly have a great deal to learn about bears if you have to ask this question.
"Be polite, be professional, have a plan to kill everyone (everthing?) you meet."

I'm in agreement; if I'm going where there are animals that CAN kill me, I'd be ready to defend myself, regardless of how LIKELY they are to kill me.

For what it's worth, the most important part of the OP's statement was "Also I'm a much better shot with the 1911." If you don't hit it, the ammo and caliber are irrelevant. Rounds on target are what win any fight.

Larry
 
You mentioned Yosemite. I've hiked there, and in other Sierra Nevada areas, for years and run into bear many times.

Never had a weapon as it was illegal to do so.

Now that I do have a CCW, I'd take my 357 Mag J frame (Model 60) or an LCR 357.

But, all the times I've run into black bear in the back country, the bear was more afraid of me than I was of him -- and took off in the other direction.

I don't consider bears much of a threat in CA, I'd go armed anyway now that I can legally. More likely a problem with 2 legs than a bear.

I'd go for a light 357, with hard cast heavy bullets, if I were backpacking. A big, heavy gun, of any caliber would get old quickly if you are carrying a 40 lb pack.

Alaska is a whole other issue.

DBCooper sounds like he knows what he is talking about.

Although I thought he bailed out with the money somewhere over Western Washington. Must have been hiding in Alaska all this time.
 
The OP mentioned Yosemite. That is Black Bear country and they are mostly used to human presence. I saw one once dismantle a car to get into the trunk where the food was stored. That old boar ignored all the yelling, whistles, and pan banging to complete his mission. If the car owner had shot him, he would have faced a substantial fine for not properly storing food.

I suppose there are parts of the Sierra Nevada where BBs have not encountered humans but odds are they have. BBs can be dangerous, particularly a mama with cubs. A .357 magnum with heavy hard cast bullets ought to provide some measure of protection if all other means of avoidance have been exhausted. If it were me, I would also carry a substantial fixed blade knife. Should all else fail and a BB gets a hold of you, just keep on stabbing until one of you is done.

Naturally, follow proper food storage procedure and keep your camp clean. I am sure you know that.
 
Like others have said, I don't think the choice of sidearm us going to be the deciding factor in a bear situation.

There are too many other variables that will probably be more relevant regarding if a bear is going to punch your ticket.

I would pack what you are most comfortable with and keep your head on a swivel. Look around, enjoy your trip, and just be aware. Personally, I'm much more leery of running into an ill intentioned human. The simple statistic of how often we murder each multiple times over fatal bear attacks sort of backs this up.

Black bears can be dangerous. If you stumble on a sow with Cubs or if the bear has gotten so used to humans that they do not fear confrontation if an easy handout can be obtained. A nighttime attack, I've heard, is a deadly raid, so be mindful of aggression after dark.

However, most of the time, they're 200lb pussycats. People are generally too big to consider eating, plus we walk upright like we are in a constant threatening stance. Despite what the Internet may have you believe, most bears are going to leave you alone if you give them wide berth.

Now, I don't go into grizzly territory. I simply never make it that far West/North. My Black Bear territory hiking load out is a good walking stick, a bell on my vest, a sturdy knife, and a .357 with flat hard cast bullets. If I were going deeper in, I would certainly strap on some spray.

If I were camping overnight, I would certainly consider a 12g or 30-30. A Blackie after dark is not something I want to mess around with.

Have a great trip:)
 
Good deal of great advice,and some hoo haa thrown in too.

I would go with BOTH,and then edc what I felt comfortable with at the moment [ or wear both ].

I totally see your problem,and grasp it.

Also of note is that the 2 legged critters in the woods are the human that is a danger too.

So a 2 gun solution is a thought ---- no ?.

I have shot Buffalo Bore in .357 and a few other calibers,they do the job.

Just be sure that your .357 is suitable for such a heavy load.
 
Do a little research on California use of bear spray before you carry it in Yosemite.

I've heard before it was illegal in some California parks.

I ran into this quote on the subject.

<Bear spray is actually considered a weapon according to the park's regulations. According to Yosemite's official website: “the possession, use, or discharge of pepper spray (including bear spray), pellet guns, and BB guns in Yosemite National Park is prohibited.”>

Also, if you are from another state, your CCW license probably isn't valid in California.

Finally, it's best in this state to only shoot a bear if you feel your life is at stake. You likely can't justify killing a bear stealing your food any more than you could justifiably kill a human taking food out of your car trunk.
 
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Say it isn't so.

A bear thread dies out before someone says they never go anywhere with less than a 375 H&H rifle.

And no one has yet told the joke about a .25 acp being an adequate bear defense gun because you can shoot your hiking companion in the knee cap and then outrun him?

And what about the Indian woman who killed a gizz with a 22LR shot in the ear?

What is the world coming to?
 
"Thanks, but im looking forward to the trip: redwoods and Yosemite."

If you have a California permit, nevermind (FWIW, I'd take the 357, but either should work for blackies).

If you don't have a California permit, I don't think you can carry legally in CA National Parks. Carry in National Parks is regulated by state law, so it's legal here in WA with a permit, but I don't think CA allows permitless open carry. I'm not from CA, so apologies if I'm mistaken.
 
I highly recommend you watch this video on bear safety, bear behavior, bear deterrents, etc. It's almost an hour long. I show this to all of my Alaska Studies students when we do our unit on outdoor survival.



I like the idea of holding ones arms up if one encounters a bear, but I'd be holding a 12 gauge with Brenneke slugs, pointed at the critter, while slowly backing up.

That way my voice would sound more commanding as I would have reason to feel a bit more commanding of the situation and my steps more steady, again, cause of more confidence I would be able to handle the situation.

See folks, it's kind of tough to keep ones cool while unarmed facing such a critter. I know cause I've been charged by a horse before (it was an abused horse we took on to help it... our mistake.)

Deaf
 
Say it isn't so.

A bear thread dies out before someone says they never go anywhere with less than a 375 H&H rifle.

And no one has yet told the joke about a .25 acp being an adequate bear defense gun because you can shoot your hiking companion in the knee cap and then outrun him?

And what about the Indian woman who killed a gizz with a 22LR shot in the ear?

What is the world coming to?

If it will make you feel better, there is a story up here in AK bout a guy who killed a brown bear on Kodiak island with a Buck 110 folding hunter lock-back pocket knife. Supposedly, the bear stood up, and fell upon the guy at the same moment the guy thrust his knife, all the way to back end of the handle into the bear as they fell. The knife happened to slip between the bear's ribs and straight into his heart.

Don't know if it's true or not, but it makes a heck of a g good story.
 
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