450BM Bolt action vs Marlin 45-70

[Axis II]

I have always had a nostalgia thing for a lever action but last year I hunted with a CVA single shot and 450BM bolt action. I actually liked the bolt action a little more due to weather, shootabilily, weight, etc. I also really like my Marlin 1895. I reload for it, have a ton of components for it and have some money into it with a Leupold scope, cheek riser, etc. I really don't want to buy another deer rifle cause we only get 9 days to use them. I shot a medium size doe with the 450bm at 70yards and she made it about 50yards with minimal blood in the beginning. My buddy shot a doe at 100yards with the 450bm and not a drop of blood and she ran with her leg dangling for about 500yards and never found her. I am leaning towards selling the Marlin and everything with it and getting a 450 bolt action.

What would you do?

 

[forty_caliber]

Is Ohio a straight wall state or are bottle neck cartridges an option?

.40

 

[Axis II]

Is Ohio a straight wall state or are bottle neck cartridges an option?

.40

Straight wall only.

 

[earlthegoat2]

What bullets are you using for the 450?

 

[Axis II]

What bullets are you using for the 450?

The Hornady custom with the gummy tip. I like the light recoil of the round but heck, I had more blood trail with a bow than I had with these rounds.

 

[gotboostvr]

That Hornady ammo might be going slightly too fast for that bullet. Lots of reports of low weight retention, shedding of jackets, small exit wounds and poor blood trails. Even the 300gr XTP/MAG doesn't look to be a good choice.

The Barnes looks good to go, but I'd probably load something like a 280-300gr LWFNGC and not worry about expansion.

 

[earlthegoat2]

The Hornady custom with the gummy tip. I like the light recoil of the round but heck, I had more blood trail with a box than I had with these rounds.

To answer your question, it seems like you like the 450. If you prefer to use that over the 45-70 for deer season then by all means get what you want to hunt with.

Strip the scope from the 1895 before you sell it to use on your new bolt 450. Get a lever action 22 to keep the nostalgia alive.

 

[Varminterror]

I wish I had a suitable answer for you, amigo! I simply can’t relate to the statement, “I don’t want to buy another ______ rifle.” Personally, I’d want both a 450B bolt gun and a Marlin 1895 45-70 - AND a 450/458 AR, and a whole bunch more.

So here are some musings among the two, some of which might resonate for you in your decision making process, or might not...

• The bolt gun is likely going to be more accurate.

• The Levergun is an opportunity to share in a dying tradition, and further, share that tradition forward to others of the next generation.

• Replacing a Marlin 1895 45-70 in the future will be more difficult. Right now, it’s looking like replacing a bolt gun in 450B is going to get easier. Might not quite really be an independent bullet point, but something to also consider.

• The Marlin can be loaded to considerably higher performance than the 450B.

• Ammunition, in this generation, seems to be more widely available with more varied options for the 45-70 than the 450. Brass is the same.

• The Ruger and Mossberg bolt guns have detachable mags, easier to empty and reload than the levergun.

• 450 uses .452” bullets, which means cheap revolver bullets can be used for plinking, but alternatively, it also means there aren’t quite as many suitable hunting bullets available. The .45-70 is straight up, all .458” rifle bullets, with a lot of bullets designed to expand in its velocity window.

• If a guy is so interested, a 450B bolt gun can share ammo (and mags, depending upon model) with an AR. The 45-70, not so much.

• Optics are more readily acceptable - for whatever silly reason - to many folks on a bolt gun than on a levergun. I use optics on everything, but some folks whine.

Personally, my MO is to save up for another rifle, and then another. I don’t have a .450B bolt gun, but have to acknowledge I’m tempted by one. I do have a couple 1895 45-70’s and a 458 Soc AR - if I were motivated by otherwise irreparable circumstances, I’d sell the AR before the Marlins, despite losing money on the AR’s, but potentially profiting on the 1895’s.

 

[Axis II]

I wish I had a suitable answer for you, amigo! I simply can’t relate to the statement, “I don’t want to buy another ______ rifle.” Personally, I’d want both a 450B bolt gun and a Marlin 1895 45-70 - AND a 450/458 AR, and a whole bunch more.

So here are some musings among the two, some of which might resonate for you in your decision making process, or might not...

• The bolt gun is likely going to be more accurate.

• The Levergun is an opportunity to share in a dying tradition, and further, share that tradition forward to others of the next generation.

• Replacing a Marlin 1895 45-70 in the future will be more difficult. Right now, it’s looking like replacing a bolt gun in 450B is going to get easier. Might not quite really be an independent bullet point, but something to also consider.

• The Marlin can be loaded to considerably higher performance than the 450B.

• Ammunition, in this generation, seems to be more widely available with more varied options for the 45-70 than the 450. Brass is the same.

• The Ruger and Mossberg bolt guns have detachable mags, easier to empty and reload than the levergun.

• 450 uses .452” bullets, which means cheap revolver bullets can be used for plinking, but alternatively, it also means there aren’t quite as many suitable hunting bullets available. The .45-70 is straight up, all .458” rifle bullets, with a lot of bullets designed to expand in its velocity window.

• If a guy is so interested, a 450B bolt gun can share ammo (and mags, depending upon model) with an AR. The 45-70, not so much.

• Optics are more readily acceptable - for whatever silly reason - to many folks on a bolt gun than on a levergun. I use optics on everything, but some folks whine.

Personally, my MO is to save up for another rifle, and then another. I don’t have a .450B bolt gun, but have to acknowledge I’m tempted by one. I do have a couple 1895 45-70’s and a 458 Soc AR - if I were motivated by otherwise irreparable circumstances, I’d sell the AR before the Marlins, despite losing money on the AR’s, but potentially profiting on the 1895’s.

Its hard to walk away from the Marlin cause of the wood, the 2-7 VX2 scope I paid $180 new and the $400 price tag of the Marlin new. I know if I made the decision to walk away and did it all over again I would be $1k in the hole. Only thing I liked about the RAR go wild I hunted with was I sat in a downpour, snow storm, and shot a deer and coyote from the stand and didn't get the snot knocked out of me. I see everyone on the Ohio Facebook pages yelling 450bm is better than anything else so I figured see what the pro's on here thought. I don't care how it shoots on paper I care how it performs on game.

 

[Varminterror]

@ohihunter2014 - it’s probably a fair statement to say the 450B is in the hunt for best straightwall in a bolt action.” Pretty small tournament bracket there. I don’t think anyone can really argue the 450B is successful in the same breath claiming the 45-70 is unsuccessful. Claiming the 450B is better on game than 45-70 has to be anecdotal at best - certainly less recoil, but after hunting with these cartridges for a long time, the difference favors the 45-70. The ol’ Gov’t throws the same bullet weights at notably higher speed, or considerably higher bullet weights at the same speed as the Bushmaster. If a guy can’t capitalize on that difference in hunting fields, it’s only because he’s chosen his bullets poorly for the 45-70.

But the ballistics and on game performance differences aren’t as dissimilar as the ergonomics and aesthetics difference between the stick shift and the levergun. That’s really the decision to be made, in my view.

 

[mcb]

Random rambling thoughts.

I love 450 Bushmaster, been hunting with it for the past three years. Took my first deer with it this year. It fell in it tracks, along with all the varmints I have shot with it. Lot of my rambling on that here: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...g-1-and-a-guessing-game.860727/#post-11329682

Barnes 275gr TXS bullet in 450 Bushmaster are solid performers and my personal favorite, if a bit pricey to shoot.

To me, 450 Bushmaster is an AR cartridge. It just does not seem all that right in a bolt gun to me. Now that said in a bolt gun you can (if you're a bit daring) push the performance pass factory ammo since 450 BM is moderately low pressure to keep it from shearing AR bolt lugs. In a bolt gun (already rated for 60ksi on that size breach face) you can push it a bit more and you have room to load longer than SAAMI OAL since you usually have more room in the magazine. Obviously that is a try at your own risk.

As much as I like 450 Bushmaster your 45/70 has more potential. You can push similar bullets to higher velocities. Not that whitetail really need it but with the proper ammo selection your 45/70 is more than a match for 450 Bushmaster.

Hunt with the gun you like. 450 Bushmaster is a great cartridge for Ohio but so is 45/70.

 

[Lennyjoe]

I may stray a bit from the original post and for that I’m sorry initially buy you’ll understand why.

When I lived in Arizona we weren’t restricted to straight wall. My 30-06 was my go to rifle. I could load 165’s for Mulies, Coues or Javalina and 180’s for Elk. It gave me more flexibility as a Reloader.

Here in Ohio I initially started with a .50 Beowulf and have since changed my go to rifle for hunting to a Marlin 45/70. It gives me the same flexibility in Ohio as my 06 did in Arizona.

Obviously the 06 and 45/70 are two different beasts but the straight wall limitations are what we have to deal with here.

I’m using 350 gr XTP for deer and 405 gr Wood Leigh Bonded SP for black bear.

If you don’t care about flexibility in your hunting rifle then stick to whichever you feel more comfortable with. Both calibers will fill the freezer either way.

 

[303 hunter]

I live in North Carolina, and can use any cartridge I want. Still, I like the 450 Bushmaster. Most of my shots are well under 100 yards, and the 450 is a great short range cartridge with plenty of punch.