Setting aside the wasp-waisted result that is lumpy but generally considered desirable, sometimes a FCD's post-sizing function will iron out a small irregularity that came from a bullet that started crooked and then got straightened. A small bulge in the brass can persist. Nothing to do with case prep.
45ACP and Lee Factory Crimp Die
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Setting aside the wasp-waisted result that is lumpy but generally considered desirable, sometimes a FCD's post-sizing function will iron out a small irregularity that came from a bullet that started crooked and then got straightened. A small bulge in the brass can persist. Nothing to do with case prep.
Plunk test is essential for ogive-to-throat interference checking. Case gauges are better at detecting damage at the base of the cartridge that might interfere - or might not - depending on how the irregularity lines up with the feed ramp or other more-generous parts of the chamber.
Also, a round that is just barely "missing" on the plunk test can be somewhat visually subtle. A round that is just barely missing in a case gauge is very obvious - because the gauge is typically cut to make the rim being above some flat plane be totally obvious. If you're trying to case a bunch of rounds quickly, this is nice and reduces the chance of missing a problem round.
Also, a small case gauge can just sit on the bench 100% of the time, whereas using a barrel requires breaking down the firearm (and introduces risk of damage through drops that hit the floor on the muzzle - I've dropped case gauges more than once).
Also, for high-volume pistol loaders, you can get large case gauges that hold a lot of rounds at once.
I'm not saying you need to start using a case gauge, I'm just saying there are things case gauges do that the plunk test doesn't, and other advantages they offer. People who like case gauges don't like them because they failed to "learn to use the plunk test."
jaguarxk120
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They also resize the case and bullet to "their spec's." when using the fcd.
I mean... yeah. That's the idea.
As I've posted many, many times, people who want to use oversized bullets (usually guys shooting bare lead) will generally hate FCD's. People shooting jacketed or other coated/plated bullets generally like them.
Blue68f100
Member
Been hand loading for over 40 yrs and still DO NOT OWN a LFCD. When I started you had to figure out what you were doing wrong and fix the problem. Now people use the LFCD to repair/fix bad hand loading practices. I can see using it in some cases for rifle (bottle neck) rounds but that all.
Try running them into the case gauge after resizing. If they pass at that point, it is likely that you aren't starting the bullets into the case mouth straight
GBExpat
Member
After seating, not resizing.
Charlie98
Member
In 30+ years of reloading 45ACP, I've never had a problem with lumpy/dumpy/bumpy .45's. Seriously, it's a non issue... meaning, I don't have those problems. Me thinks if you are having those problems, something else is amiss. For that matter, after resizing, almost ALL my handgun brass will have the 'hour glass' figure after a bullet is seated... which puts us back at GBExpat's comment about the lumpy/dumpy. If your seating die isn't seating straight, something is wrong. If your cartridges won't chamber, something is wrong. Using the crimp die to straighten everything out after the fact is a little nutty.
Didn't know that. Dumb question, does it have the crimping collet like the rifle FCD does?
GBExpat
Member
Uh huh.
Why?
I plunk-test all of my .45acp reloads. Periodically, there will be one does not quiiiiiite pass. My SOP is to run it thru the FCD once more which almost always solves the problem. This procedure has failed to correct the cartridge "plunk-ability" (plunk-ness? plunk-ocity?) only 2-3 times in the past few years.
So maybe I'm a little nutty.
kmw1954
Member
Yes, there is something wrong only every time this comes up it is made out that the problem is with the reloaded ammunition. I see this repeated over and over and in most cases it is true but not always 100% true!
I have a 45acp that is a real stinker, very finicky with ammo especially reloaded ammunition. The only thing I could find to correct this was the Lee Carbide FCD. There is not a thing wrong with the reloads, they chamber in the gauge and they fire and cycle perfectly fine in every other gun they are tried in. It has been suggested by some that I need to send this gun out and have it "repaired", in other words Altered. But I ask myself, WHY, when a $25.00 tool can make it work just as well as and factory round. Send it out and have it Altered why, just so I can thumb my nose at the hated Lee FCD? Fact is, this gun is one of the most accurate guns I own, the next owner may never shoot reloads thru it and if they do then they can decide to send it out to be REPAIRED.
Like quaid in post #3, I only use a 38 Special FCD to fix the occasional 38 Special wadcutter that won't chamber. I set the round aside, run it through the FCD when I get home and shoot it at the next session. I get one or two of these in 500 or so reloads.
I'm not sure what the issue is, an oversize bullet, cocked seating or whatever but the number of failures is too small to worry about. Since I do not compete, I can put up with a little inconvenience during my range time.
Otherwise, I feel the handgun FCD dies are a solution looking for a problem. Note, the bottleneck FCD dies are a different animal.
Another general comment, I like to crimp my handgun cartridges in a separate step from seating. I got into the habit back around 1980 when I started loading 45 ACP. At the time, my seating die had a roll crimp machined in it and it was difficult to set the die to get a consistent taper like crimp with the die. So, I obtained a taper crimp die. Up until recently, I'd taper crimp all my various semi-auto handgun rounds in a separate step. Since I started using a progressive press, I now crimp my revolver rounds in a separate step from seating since it does not take any extra time.
Just one of my idiosyncrasies and certainly not a requirement.
I'm not sure what the issue is, an oversize bullet, cocked seating or whatever but the number of failures is too small to worry about. Since I do not compete, I can put up with a little inconvenience during my range time.
Otherwise, I feel the handgun FCD dies are a solution looking for a problem. Note, the bottleneck FCD dies are a different animal.
Another general comment, I like to crimp my handgun cartridges in a separate step from seating. I got into the habit back around 1980 when I started loading 45 ACP. At the time, my seating die had a roll crimp machined in it and it was difficult to set the die to get a consistent taper like crimp with the die. So, I obtained a taper crimp die. Up until recently, I'd taper crimp all my various semi-auto handgun rounds in a separate step. Since I started using a progressive press, I now crimp my revolver rounds in a separate step from seating since it does not take any extra time.
Just one of my idiosyncrasies and certainly not a requirement.
kmw1954
Member
cfullgraf, yes the Lee FCD is not the end-all be-all but it is a tool like any other and has a place. Is it over used? Maybe. I do most of my loading for pistols on a Lee Pro1000 3 position press and I use Everyday Ordinary Lee Carbide 3 die set in that press for 380, 9mm, 45acp and soon 38Spl. The only reason I purchased a FCD is for a solution for one particular gun. If I didn't have that gun I wouldn't need the die.
Also I am one that seats and crimps in one step and haven't had a problem because of it.
Also I am one that seats and crimps in one step and haven't had a problem because of it.
I agree.
markr6754
Member
Lots of opinions, some quite strong in this thread. I always thought the only true purpose of the Lee FCD was to remove the slight bell remaining after seating the bullet. My seating dies are made to do this, but I prefer to have each die perform a unique function. I’ll also admit to being die setup challenged. Seems I had more problems when seating and crimping with the same die, and solved this by separating the steps.
My 45s generally don’t need much crimp...they’re barely getting touched. I have more issues with 9mm. The only rounds that I feel getting “sized” are 380s, and generally only when seating plated bullets.
I’m trying to put the tiniest flare in my brass that allows me to get a bullet in, which makes bullet seating more challenging, but I’m hoping to get longer life out of my cases. I’ve only shaved one plated bullet thus far, so it seems to be working.
My 45s generally don’t need much crimp...they’re barely getting touched. I have more issues with 9mm. The only rounds that I feel getting “sized” are 380s, and generally only when seating plated bullets.
I’m trying to put the tiniest flare in my brass that allows me to get a bullet in, which makes bullet seating more challenging, but I’m hoping to get longer life out of my cases. I’ve only shaved one plated bullet thus far, so it seems to be working.
GBExpat
Member
Me, too. Like some here, I am sure, I accidentally stumbled into the "added benefit" (my interpretation) of the Lee 45acp FCD.
As I recall I was experiencing minor Plunk issues with some self-coated 230g lead bullet reloads. I was not using my new FCD in that process, but remembered the speedbump. Hmmmm. So I tried it and it WORKED!
And, yes, after coating those bullets, I had properly sized them.
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DukeConnor
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The 45 FCD solved a feed issue I had with a 45 carbine and lead bullets. It didn't like my home cast powder coated 200 gr bullets. Running them through the fcd solved any feed problems.
I suppose I could have solved my issues with other means but, dam it Jim, I'm a shooter not a scientist.
I suppose I could have solved my issues with other means but, dam it Jim, I'm a shooter not a scientist.
Charlie98
Member
We will need to submit that to SAMMI for a proper ruling... and maybe that could be added to the glossary...
Look, I'm not trying to bust your chops, guys. I've not encountered a problem like that ever... except when my reloading technique lacked execution and I screwed something up, it wasn't the fault of the equipment. I stop the process and fix what I've done wrong. I don't think I've ever had a pistol that fought me on ammo quality, so I've not had to go looking for a solution, either. My big barometer is 'let the tools do the work,' and to that end if you have that going for you, great. My experience with a rifle FCD wasn't so good... and I WANTED it to work, really. It didn't. YMMV, as it obviously has.
whughett
Member
I bought and use the FCD to try and address a problem of loading bullets designed for 45ACP in 45C. I cast and shoot 180 and 200 grain bullets in my Gold Cup thinking I could get double duty and use the same bullet in both cartridges. I was thinking the FCD would apply a tighter taper crimp to the bullets with no crimping groove. Didn’t work all that well.
Long story short those big 45C cases with too much space for too little powder was creating several problems until I discovered TrailBoss.
Long story short those big 45C cases with too much space for too little powder was creating several problems until I discovered TrailBoss.
Nope. Just a regular taper crimp. It's just a taper crimp die with a slightly-bigger-than-sizing-die ring at the bottom. That's all.
Once again, unless an oversized bullet is being used and desired as part of the end result, there's no harm or downside in FCD's.
And if, on the other hand, you load plated, then seating and crimping in one step may not be for you. I think a lot of the problems people have with plated bullets come from moving the bullet while the crimp has already closed up. Good way to scrape/gouge/cut the plating. I prefer to get the bullet to the right depth, then stop moving it, then close up the crimp. Of course, I've never loaded pistol rounds single-stage, so it hasn't "cost" me much extra work to do it that way.
RealGun
Member
With the exception of brass fire formed in my 625 revolver, all the rest gets run through the bulge buster, so my only issues with gauging are at the case mouth. I just went through the thing about SWC needing to be seated flush, or the cartridges will headspace on the bullet instead of the case mouth. I had best luck with what I had using a Hornady crimp-only taper crimp die. I think the idea that Lee dies have too steep a taper may be true. I get the impression that those dies cause any exposed bullet shoulder to mushroom a thousandths or two. It's as if Lee created a solution to their own problem. I could be wrong. All I know is that an FCD is an essential tool in my reloading tool box, or I would be pulling bullets more often. The real issue is not having a dedicated machine and setup, where you perfect the settings and then don't mess with it. I can't dedicate a $1000+ rig to one of 13 cartridges I reload.
kmw1954
Member
Look, I'm not trying to bust your chops, guys. I've not encountered a problem like that ever...
Charlie98, hope you didn't take my quote from you personally as it wasn't meant that way. There are plenty more in this post that were making the same inference that I could have used. It just happened that I used yours for the example. I learned long ago to try and stay away from the fray of this topic. People get very passionate about it.
I guess I took it as a personal assault one time after replying that I use the FCD for one bullet and was then resoundedly told that I was lazy and making subpar crap and didn't know what I was doing or didn't care.. Sadly I spent weeks trying to work out that issue only to find it wasn't the ammunition with the problem but the gun. So my reason for using that tool is just as valid as any reason I've heard to NOT use it.
Exactly why I like the FCD for plated!
Charlie98
Member
No, I don't take offense at stuff like that... I'm too old for that. In reality, you have experienced something I haven't, so I'm learning from you, anyway. ATLDave clarified that the FCD for straightwalls isn't the same collet design used in the rifle FCD, which makes sense, and how you are using it makes sense, also, if it solves the problem of a tough feeding pistol, etc.
I'll also 2nd ATLDave's suggestion of seating and crimping plated bullets in two separate steps. My first stab at loading plated bullets... I must have had some of the early thin plate bullets... did not turn out well. In the end, and with rare exception, I seat and crimp in two separate steps for everything, now... it just works better.
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