6.8 SPC 6.5 Grendal

[Varminterror]

@mpd61 - is the 6.5 Grendel (especially in the mini actions) any less of a bandwagon than the Creedmoor? "Hell," the Grendel was tailing far behind the 6.8SPC for a decade before the 6.5 Creedmoor came out and the Grendel got a revival from coproduct sales.

I was really unhappy with the mags in the Howa. Feeding wasn't optimal for the Grendel in the Howa, to say the least. A 6.5 Creed sliding out of AI mags is about as reliable as a DBM stick shift can get.

 

[Newtosavage]

@mpd61
I was really unhappy with the mags in the Howa. Feeding wasn't optimal for the Grendel in the Howa, to say the least. A 6.5 Creed sliding out of AI mags is about as reliable as a DBM stick shift can get.

Funny you say that as my Howa feeds the Grendel smooth as silk. I'm not a fan of the Mini magazine that extends below the stock (even after I shortened mine) but the smooth feeding is one thing I do like about those mags. I've emptied a few magazines as fast as I can work the bolt and shoot (which is pretty damn fast these days) while feral pigs ran all around me, multiple times now. Not a single hiccup as far as the magazines go. Now my shooting on the other hand... LOL

 

[Varminterror]

A couple of us on our state PRS club bought the mini Howa's in the Grendel, with the idea of having a powder friendly trainer with longer range capabilities... One of the guys gave the rifle to his son after he gave up on it, the other 3 of us sold ours. I love the idea of it, and if a guy could make it feed well, all the better, but we didn't have much luck. I suppose the difference is likely the different pressures we're putting on the magazine shooting from barricades and other obstacles, vs. hunting.

 

[brutus51]

Decided to quit farting around and jump into the deep end, Placed an order for a 6.8 upper. Darn it now I gotta get brass, powder, and bullets not to mention some reloading dies. Won't be around for awhile I'm off to the reloading forum.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Good! At least you made a decision and don't have analysis paralysis.

 

[Newtosavage]

A couple of us on our state PRS club bought the mini Howa's in the Grendel, with the idea of having a powder friendly trainer with longer range capabilities... One of the guys gave the rifle to his son after he gave up on it, the other 3 of us sold ours. I love the idea of it, and if a guy could make it feed well, all the better, but we didn't have much luck. I suppose the difference is likely the different pressures we're putting on the magazine shooting from barricades and other obstacles, vs. hunting.

Yea, that would do it. Once I cut my mag flush, it really made the whole rifle much better for hunting. Still one of the most consistently (read - boring) accurate rifle I've ever owned. I'd put it right there with my Tikkas in that category, which is pretty high praise. Both of those rifles disappoint me if they shoot over 0.7" anymore, and they are both sub-7 lb. scoped and loaded.

 

[mpd61]

@mpd61 - is the 6.5 Grendel (especially in the mini actions) any less of a bandwagon than the Creedmoor? "Hell," the Grendel was tailing far behind the 6.8SPC for a decade before the 6.5 Creedmoor came out and the Grendel got a revival from coproduct sales.

Coproduct sales? Ok......
But as far as my eye can see, 6.5 Creedmoor has pushed nearly everything in 6.5 OFF the shelves at my LGS and Cabela's. Although Cabela's did have two (2) boxes of the new 6.5 PRC.
Look, I am NOT so anti 6.8SPC, but Grendel has pretty much overtaken and is running away, and I have to disagree it has anything to do with 6.5 Creedmoor.

 

[Newtosavage]

Coproduct sales? Ok......
But as far as my eye can see, 6.5 Creedmoor has pushed nearly everything in 6.5 OFF the shelves at my LGS and Cabela's. Although Cabela's did have two (2) boxes of the new 6.5 PRC.
Look, I am NOT so anti 6.8SPC, but Grendel has pretty much overtaken and is running away, and I have to disagree it has anything to do with 6.5 Creedmoor.

I agree with this. It's tough to find anything but 6.5 CM ammo at the Cabelas or Academy or even the local Wal-Marts. Even tougher to find anyone behind a counter that can tell you the difference between the 6.5CM and 6.5 Grendel. A lot of them don't even know. They just see the 6.5 and now assume you mean Creedmoor. Shows what good marketing can do I suppose!

To me, the real benefit to the 6.5 Grendel should have been the ability to get much better long range performance while running the same bolt face and mags as the 7.62x39. I'm just not sure if that was enough though.

After owning, modifying and shooting my Howa Mini 6.5 Grendel for a while now, I like the rifle a lot but I'm starting to call it my "tweener." As in, it fits in-between other calibers that I own and like. Most notably the 7mm-08 and my 7.62x39. Other than it's abilities on the range, which are unsurpassed by any other "hunting" rifle I own, I can't say it really does anything for me that either the 7mm-08 or 7.62x39 won't already do. And since I'll never NOT own a 7mm-08 (as I consider it the all-around finest hunting caliber ever created), and since the 7.62x39 more than covers my need for low recoil / low cost training and hunting, I'm just not sure if I have enough of a need for the Grendel to keep it. I hate even saying that because after all the improvements I've made to mine, it really is a sweet little rifle to shoot.

I just find myself reaching for the 7mm-08 when going to the deer woods, and for the 7.62x39 when heading after packs of pigs, or handing a rifle to a new shooter.

 

[Varminterror]

Coproduct sales? Ok......
But as far as my eye can see, 6.5 Creedmoor has pushed nearly everything in 6.5 OFF the shelves at my LGS and Cabela's. Although Cabela's did have two (2) boxes of the new 6.5 PRC.
Look, I am NOT so anti 6.8SPC, but Grendel has pretty much overtaken and is running away, and I have to disagree it has anything to do with 6.5 Creedmoor.

It’s a common thing in market trends. A hot product will always help improve sales of similar products - because a lot of people will want the hot thing, but don’t want to want the hot thing, so they buy something similar... aka, buy a long range AR in 6.5 Grendel, or Howa/CZ in 6.5 Grendel instead of a 6.5 creed.

We hadn’t seen squat from the 6.5G in years, the AR market was flooded and the 300blk was the cartridge du jour, then the 6.5 creed inspired market interest in long range shooting, and suddenly the 6.5 Grendel is popular.

I did make a mistake in terminology, it’s not coproduct sales, it’s similar product sales, but the market trend for Grendel popularity and component resurgence trend corresponding to the 6.5 creed and long range shooting trend sure paints a picture.

 

[<*(((><]

I think the recent rise in the Grendel can be highly attributed to the 6.5 Creedmoor. The 6.5 Grendel received boosts in a couple of places along it's rise.

1. Finally getting the Type I & II bolts understood by the buyers and builders, the confusion caused by this slowed it's progress.
2. Alexander Arms releases it for SAAMI certification (2011)
3. Wolf producing steel cased ammo; I never understood the desire for cheap steel cased fodder for a hunting/precision rifle but it is what it is, Americans like things that go bang for cheap.
4. The rise of the 6.5 Creedmoor; the term 6.5 has accuracy, distance, easy, low recoiling, modern advancement rolled up in it's description at this point in time, and it was put there by the 6.5 Creedmoor soon after it's release in 2007; it wasn't there in 2003 when the Grendel came out. Gun people knew of the .260 Remington, and the 6.5x55; but once the 6.5 Creedmoor came on the scene everyone became "captain long range".

The nomenclature of 6.5 became a household name overnight in not just gun junkies, but in new comers to guns, and hunters who only put a box through a year. It was a BRILLIANT marketing effort by Hornady, it was a well thought out case design that overcame some minor deficiencies of the .260 REM, and the big boost came from the factory Hornady ammo that by all accounts I've heard shoots very accurate. All of this made it a sensation, a sensation that spills over into anything that starts with "6.5". If the 6.5 Grendel was called the .264 Grendel, I bet you dollars to donuts that it wouldn't have got to the level it has in the market. Not to say it wouldn't have been a success, I just think it is riding the proverbial wave of sensational marketing of a shared nomenclature.

But these are just my thoughts, and in no way takes away from the 6.5 Grendel's abilities.

 

[mpd61]

The Creedmoor took practically a full decade after birth to suddenly explode........(marketing vs. reality)
The Grendel has done well as an AR round even despite the AR troubles politically suffered.
Poop on the Creedmoor, my Swede isn't inferior in any way...

 

[Varminterror]

Yawn...

 

[<*(((><]

The Creedmoor took practically a full decade after birth to suddenly explode..

Ok...

The 6.5 Creedmoor is one of the fastest accepted cartridges I’ve seen. I’ve never even owned one and say this...

And it does long/high BC bullets it in a short action, something your venerable Swiss cannot without repercussions (i.e. single shot or short projectiles)

 

[Newtosavage]

Tweener done good this evening. 175 yards, exactly where I was aiming. She didn't take a step.

btw, that's the exit hole. I estimate her weight between 200 and 250 lbs. Had to use both hands to drag her.

 

[troy fairweather]

mmm bacon

 

[mpd61]

Ok...

The 6.5 Creedmoor is one of the fastest accepted cartridges I’ve seen. I’ve never even owned one and say this...

And it does long/high BC bullets it in a short action, something your venerable Swiss cannot without repercussions (i.e. single shot or short projectiles)

Ahhhh,
The old "long action inferiority-cuz-I-got-nothing-else" argument. Pretty certain those same high b.c. bullets you talk about will be doing ANYTHING the same as Creedmoor, when they get driven the same velocity or even a tad more outta my 1:8 twist 24" Ruger SWEDE. (Swiss?)
I swear sometimes the short vs. Long action crowd sounds
like comparing a Savage or Ruger precision bolt to a 1866 Winchester lever.......

 

[Varminterror]

The Swede is so superior, it’s been one of the 3 popular parent cases dominating precision rifle competition for the last 5 years... oh wait... well, it rhymes with Swede I guess....

 

[rayatphonix]

Newtosavage, is that your Howa Grendel ?

 

[mpd61]

The Swede is so superior, it’s been one of the 3 popular parent cases dominating precision rifle competition for the last 5 years... oh wait... well, it rhymes with Swede I guess....

Oh heck yeah!!!
The Swede is so successful, many folks have necked it down to 6mm and are winning competitions with it. Some guys have necked it up to 6.8mm and dubbed it the 6.8 SSPC (super special precision cartridge) in custom intermediate length Yugo actions for a slight edge over that old long-action .270 Winchester........
Like you said earlier, "Yawn"

 

[<*(((><]

Ahhhh,
The old "long action inferiority-cuz-I-got-nothing-else" argument. Pretty certain those same high b.c. bullets you talk about will be doing ANYTHING the same as Creedmoor, when they get driven the same velocity or even a tad more outta my 1:8 twist 24" Ruger SWEDE. (Swiss?)
I swear sometimes the short vs. Long action crowd sounds
like comparing a Savage or Ruger precision bolt to a 1866 Winchester lever.......

Sounds like someone’s a little miffed that a more efficient cartridge is taking some of their fun. I guess the Swede is the pinnacle that cannot be improved on.

I was pointing out why the Creedmoor is popular in response to your opinion that it took a full decade to finally explode which is a joke of a comment if one has been in the loop on shooting sports.

But I digress, you’re right the Creedmoor will do nothing for someone with your astute determinations. Carry on with your Swede, it’s a great round especially for its time.

 

[Walkalong]

Carry on with your Swede, it’s a great round especially for its time

It is indeed a great round, and has taken more game around the world than a lot of calibers, and has been used for long distance shooting as well, and will do just fine for the majority of hunters, but the 6.5 Creedmoor is going to outsell it by far these days, and it's a great little caliber in its own right. It really all depends on exactly what you are looking for and what you want a caliber to do.

The 7MM Mauser is a great little round, and it languishes as well. The .30-30 is still killing game as well as it ever has.

Most rifle shooters, and especially hunters, don't shoot much distance, despite that being as popular as ever.

 

[<*(((><]

I, in no way was diminishing the Swede, it was way ahead of its time, this is for sure.

My point is exactly what you said, the 6.5 Creedmoor will more than likely continue to out sell the Swede by at least 25:1 if not more.

But I’ll leave it at that as I’m getting off the OP subject.

 

[Varminterror]

It’s more than 25:1, without a doubt. The Nation’s foremost firearm seller - Ruger - has reported selling more 6.5 Creeds each year of the last handful than any other cartridge. How many 6.5x55 Swede models were even on the market this year?

 

[<*(((><]

It’s more than 25:1, without a doubt. The Nation’s foremost firearm seller - Ruger - has reported selling more 6.5 Creeds each year of the last handful than any other cartridge. How many 6.5x55 Swede models were even on the market this year?

I was guessing worldwide which is probably a way low ratio in itself, but here in the states it's probably easily 250:1 the past few years.

 

[Varminterror]

World scale scope doesn’t change much, typically. The US buys more guns than anywhere else each year, by a large margin.

I will say, I wasn’t surprised to see the 6.5 Grendel overtake the 6.8 SPC in market appeal in the last handful of years - but I WILL be very interested if .mil does adopt a .277” cartridge, what it will do for 6.8 SPC sales in the future.