68gr Hornady Poor Accuracy

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Pripyat

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Just looking for some opinions -
Rifle: 18" SS .223 Wylde 1:9 AR15

I shot some factory Lake City 55gr ball ammo to get the scope on paper. I quickly printed a 3-shot group on the bullseye at 100 yards. Group measured about 1.25".

I then decided to shoot a group to see what the rifle was capable of - I loaded up some hand loads (These same bullets shoot .4-.5" consistently out of a 1:9 twist bolt gun). They came out to 5-6" 3 shot group. No key-holing. I switched back to factory ammo and got a 1.5" 5-shot group at 100.

This doesn't even make sense to me.. I suspected that maybe the projectiles were moving when they were being chambered but I measured loads before and after cycling and they aren't budging.

The question may be: What do you start varying to get better groups when you start out worse than any ammo you have ever seen? Maybe I need to get different projectiles and leave the Hornady's to the bolt gun?

Makes me think - If the bullets are that bad I can't wait to see what the bolt gun will do with better projectiles.
 
Since everyone likes pictures -

l3bYd0kl.jpg

Left target is hand loads at 100m. Right target is the last group I shot. 5 Shots, 100m, factory ammo.

[edit] If varying the charge by some percent takes the hand loads from 5" MOA to 1" MOA there is still no way I will ever use that ammo when it mattered - Seems like the accuracy is too far off for it to be a powder charge issue.
 
I think every Wylde chamber I have seen is a 1:8 twist. The 68 -69 is well suited for the 1:8.
You didn't state what the charge was.
I have pretty good luck with the 69 SMK
 
Charge 23.0gn varget. Min is 22.7, max is 24.9 although I'm using military brass. Trimmed, deburred, flash hole uniformed, etc.

All components sorted by weight. Charges +/- 1 granule of powder. All projectiles 67.98gn.
 
The powder charge sounds about right. 24.9 sounds pretty hot to me. I use 23.5 of IMR4895 with the 69SMK. The 2 powders are very similar.
 
Yeah I'm ready confused about the whole ordeal. I didn't know bullets could be so consistently bad.
 
Well the reason I'm so weirded out is because I have been falsely under the impression that if you make match grade bullets (as similar as possible) they should be fairly accurate or at least have reasonably consistent points of impact.

I think of doing load development for other rifles - I have never seen a bullet with a 6" MOA swing between cartridges.
 
One of my 1-7 AR's favorite bullet is the Hornady 68g JHPBT with a max load of 748.
 
Well the reason I'm so weirded out is because I have been falsely under the impression that if you make match grade bullets (as similar as possible) they should be fairly accurate or at least have reasonably consistent points of impact.

There is more to it than that. An obvious issue would be a long match bullet in a barrel with too slow of a twist.

Some bullets like a 'jam' into the lands. Some like a 'jump'. Some guns have too long a throat to jam, or magazine fit is a limitation.

Rifling impacts what works, and what doesn't. A patched round ball shoots poorly from a muzzle-loader with a fast-twist shallow button rifling, but shoots well in one with a slower twist and deep cut-rifling. Different Bullets have their favorites, in terms of rifling and throat dimensions too.

In rifles, I've almost always had better success with extruded powders, than ball powders, even if they don't meter well.

Ball powders are almost always more consistent, IME, with warmer primers, but the correct bullet is most often the greatest factor in accuracy.

I'd try different bullets first. See if your barrel likes the 69 Gr SMK instead...which has a longer bearing surface. Or try the flat-based 53 Gr. SMK...flat based bullets have an advantage in short range accuracy.

Maybe your barrel likes Bergers, or Lapuas, or Noslers.

A big part of reloading is finding that match between rifle and load. It requires some experimentation.
 
Was looking for new projectiles and found a thread on the popular ar15 site about an identical experience. He ended up switching to a different powder to get the groups under control. Maybe this isn't such a strange event after all.. live and learn.
 
I would work up the load, more velocity = more rpm's on the bullet.
The 1:9 should work well with 68- 69gr with a 24" barrel with Varget, but with a 18" barrel your velocity is maybe too low.
It's more of a length issue than a weight issue, a different 68-69gr bullet may do better.
 
It is crazy that I shot the smallest group I have ever shot (by far) with the same bullets but from a different gun. The rifle that shoots this load well is a bolt gun with 2 more inches of barrel (20") at the same twist rate (1:9). Going to pick up some 69gr matchkings as well as trying a stouter load with the 68's in the 18" AR.

Would you guys expect too much or too little crimp to be my problem? I passed each round through a factory crimp die for security reasons but the crimp is basically non-measurable with a caliper. I was fearful of deforming the projectile since there is no cannelure. I just barely kissed each round with the crimp die
 
I just realized the smallest and largest group I have ever shot was with 23.0gn varget under 68gn hornady HPBT.
.36" and 6".. :)
 
I just realized the smallest and largest group I have ever shot was with 23.0gn varget under 68gn hornady HPBT.
.36" and 6"..

I've seen more guns like the 69 SMK than the Hornady 68 HPBT.

I've got 3 AR(s), a heavy barreled Savage, and a CZ 527 in .223. All but the CZ likes the SMK. None liked the Hornady 68, but all liked the 55 Gr V-Max.
 
I think it must be the bullets fault.

That's what I always tell myself anyway.Couldnt be anything Ive done.:)
 
My first suggestion in this case is actually to step on the gas a bit harder. 23.0 grains of Varget under a 68/69 grain bullet is pretty light in a Wylde chamber. Check that your bullets aren't jammed into the lands first. This is rare with magazine length bullets in an AR15 but it's possible. Once you've confirmed you have room on front of the bullets, try 24-24.5 grains of Varget. That might be enough to get you to reasonable accuracy in your rifle.

Honestly, if a 1-9 to 1-7 twist .223 won't print a decent group with Varget and 68/69 match bullets, my first suspect is the barrel, not the ammo. I've literally used the same loads through 3 different match barrels on my Highpower rifle, and tried them through 2 barrels on my dad's rifle. Oh, and also fed those loads to a 16" M4gery carbine. Never had one shoot worse than good. And 6" is definitely worse than good.

Keep us posted and let us know what you find.
 
I had this same problem with a 20" barreled 1:9" AR. It would stabilize 68gr, 69gr, and 75gr AMAX and HPBT bullets, but it would not shoot good groups with them. It shot magnificent groups with 52gr bullets. I did receive the suggestion to try 60gr bullets, but never got around to them before I lost match accuracy.

I got great results with 748 and 52's during the fall, winter & spring, but I got pressure spikes during hot weather. My home range rarely has wind from any direction but 6 O'Clock, so I got great results to 200 yards.

I just bought another 1:9" barrel on an HBAR at a Estate sale.

My experience with 1:8" and 1:7" has been much better.
 
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I too have had unfavorable results from the Hornady 68gn bullets, however to be fair I did run out of decent weather before I could finish my work up( its 13deg now). I was using a 1:7 twist 16" barreled AR that shoots great with Lake City ammo.

I was using 24gn of CFE223 and I too was surprised at the lack of accuracy. I now have some loaded in .2gn increments from mid way, up to near max and will report back as soon as it is a little nicer weather out. Good luck OP!
 
I have easy access to a 50m range so I did some testing earlier this evening. I had 30 rounds made up with 23.0gn varget with COAL just short enough to make it into the magazine. I ran six back through the bullet seater and seated them to 2.250" just to see.

At 50m:

m5qFFfZh.jpg
Velocities:
2473
2494
2500
2535
 
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