7.62x39 vs .357 Magnum

[MachIVshooter]

Buffalo Bore is exceptionally high energy boutique ammo, which substantially changes the equation. You need to compare like to like, so get some more normal defensive ammo for your comparison.

They're not the only company loading hot, and us handloaders have been pushing those numbers for decades. I have 110 gr./1695 FPS loads, 125 gr./1,560 FPS loads, 158 gr./1,440 FPS loads. Those numbers were chonographed at 15' from 4" Revolvers (Security Six and 65-3). I no longer have the Security, and these days I reserve that punishment for my L-frame guns, but the point remains that the cartridge's potential can be realized by the handloader and commercial ammo buyer alike. And while you may consider Buffalo Bore, Double Tap and Cor-Bon "botique", I'd say they're fairly mainstream these days, since I can buy the stuff at several local gun shops, Sportsman's Warehouse, etc., and it's competitively priced with other premium ammo like Federal Hydra-Shok or Remington Golden Sabre.

But I guess I didn't see the disclaimer in the OP about "no high performace .357 ammo considerations".........

 

[brnmuenchow]

I don't think a few inches of length will make much difference in your house, especially if you know to take cover and wait for the bad guy to come to you.

I will disagree on this one not everyone will be in a position to just simply wait and take cover, that may not be an option in some cases. As for clearing room to room in a house when was the last time you have seen any SWAT or Military personel clearing a building with a lever action rifle? Length can and does matter, not to mention lever action vs. semi-auto. operating systems.

 

[Owen Sparks]

There is an old military axiom:

“An entrenched enemy will cost you three men”.

This means that a soldier who is dug in or behind cover has a three to one advantage over those in the open field. This same principle holds true indoors as well. If you get behind something solid and cover a specific chokepoint like a narrow hallway or stairwell you will have a tremendous advantage over an intruder who does not know you are there. If you go room to room like Starskey and Hutch you can give the advantage to the bad guy.

 

[brnmuenchow]

There is an old military axiom:

“An entrenched enemy will cost you three men”.

This means that a soldier who is dug in or behind cover has a three to one advantage over those in the open field. This same principle holds true indoors as well. If you get behind something solid and cover a specific chokepoint like a narrow hallway or stairwell you will have a tremendous advantage over an intruder who does not know you are there. If you go room to room like Starskey and Hutch you can give the advantage to the bad guy.

So in the case someone breaks into your home and you have x-ray vision because you know where the bad guy's are already (which is doubtful) and or they begin to go in the direction your kids are at in the building you are going to give yourself the old hunker down in a corner/ fortified hallway line to give yourself the:

There is an old military axiom:

“An entrenched enemy will cost you three men”.

advantage, well sounds great for some of you but I will take my chances and go after the perp. protecting your family and military tactics may not always be the best thing "IMO". Not everyone has the option of putting your family in a fox hole to gun the enemy down or having the advantage over the enemy by surprise. You don't typically get that kind of intel before it happens. You only have the advantage due to the fact it's your home and you have done everything you know how to prepare, but that is about all you get. I also still stand by what I said in the begining, I will take an AK or AR over a .357 Mag. lever rifle in this case anyday of the week.

 

[EBK]

"EBK - those sure look pretty."

Indeed they do. I was Impressed and that is what I keep in my AK at home Should My
.45 not be enough.

 

[Trent]

Nice. Do you know, offhand, how the differ from VMAX on larger critters? I've loaded a bunch of Vmax in the past on 22-250 and the effects are pretty outstanding. I take it the SST has a slightly less ... explosive terminal effect?

I see they make those SST's in 5.45x39 as well, that is news to me. Happy news.

Also, are those steel cases boxer primed?

 

[MechAg94]

Since we seem to want to talk about the max possible loadings for 357, what is the max load for 7.62x39?

 

[MechAg94]

My first thought? My Vepr K has a 40 round magazine. My 357 carbine holds eight.

My revolver holds eight also, but that is a different argument.

 

[tactikel]

According to the "experts" on Weaponology, more humans have fallen to the 7.63x39 than any other caliber. It should fill your needs.
It packs far more energy the the .357, just use a bullet intended for SD/HD.

 

[Fisherman12]

Since we seem to want to talk about the max possible loadings for 357, what is the max load for 7.62x39?

Good question! I'd like to know this too. highest end load I've ever seen are the Hornady v-max's at 124 grains and 2400 fps, but that's not especially fast or heavy.

There are 154 grain 7.62x39 rounds by Brown Bear I believe, but they're also considerably slower so it probably evens out.

Is there a 7.62x39 load that's both heavy and fast?

 

[MachIVshooter]

Since we seem to want to talk about the max possible loadings for 357, what is the max load for 7.62x39?

124 @ 2,400 is about it, and honestly, the velocity is usually a bit lower from a 16" AK barrel. Figures much over 2,400 are usually obtained with 20"-22" guns, and even then, another 6" of barrel doesn't improve the performance of this stubby round by much, maybe 100 FPS or so. There' just not much room left in the case to hot rod that round at safe pressure levels. It's pretty much a 1,500-1,600 Ft/lb cartridge.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Good question! I'd like to know this too. highest end load I've ever seen are the Hornady v-max's at 124 grains and 2400 fps, but that's not especially fast or heavy.

There are 154 grain 7.62x39 rounds by Brown Bear I believe, but they're also considerably slower so it probably evens out.

Is there a 7.62x39 load that's both heavy and fast?

I've run 150g bullets to 2100 in a 20" bbl and 170's to 1950fps and 125's close to 2500

With small primed brass and carefully selected powders like n120 or aa1680 a performance boost can be had. Couple this with a high BC bullet and you have a load like Ive used to kill deer out beyond 270yds

Some steel cased ammo from Russia runs quite peppy too. At one time barnual 125sp's were going almost 2500 fps from a 18" barreled CZ. The 154 grain loads tended to be just over 2100 in most guns

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-409365.html

357 with 158 grain bullets AND CURRENT saami load data is for all practical purposes a 1750fps cartridge be it in a Marlin 1894 or even the 22" barrel found on my Remington rolling block. There's some LIL GUN data that will approach 2k but I discontinued its use due to nonexistent accuracy and scary pressure spikes that would render new starline cases unreloadable after firing

 

[leadcounsel]

Off the shelf ammo, the 7.62 wins.

Off the shelf platforms, again the AK47 or SKS trump the lever gun.

Both are effective man stoppers, the AK/SKS just moreso...

 

[brnmuenchow]

Is there a 7.62x39 load that's both heavy and fast?

Unless I suppose you load your own, the 154gr. SP Wolf 7.62X39mm are not any faster than the Brown Bear brand either, both are pretty slow (no I do not really know which of the two are faster) and have a rainbow trajectory but as a defense load in a home that trajectory is not going to make any difference. I would imagine out of a longer barrel bolt gun the velocity of the SP would be higher somewhere between 2,100-2,400fps as previously stated I believe, I just do not know just by how much in comparison to an AK, or SKS rifle using FMJ 122-123gr. bullets.

All I know is that a 7.62X39mm 154gr. SP on a human invader at close range is a pretty bad day for the bad guy in ques.