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7.65 Browning vs. 32 ACP

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by film495, Jan 18, 2020.

  1. film495

    film495 Member

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    I did get a chance to turn the inked dummy rounds in the chamber with needle nose plyers, it didn't really tell me that much so - I decided to check on the crimp and it seemed to prove some good results. Although, based on the dimensions listed in SAMMI and CIP specs - it should not be close to contacting at the case mouth, but it is unless that crimp is done in a very narrow margin. Maybe I need a roll crimp, or to trim the case a hair back to trim length - they are all still well short of maximum.

    Another issue that's come up - is some of the bullets will wiggle and turn in the case after they are set and crimped. Not sure there is anything I can do about that other than find different tools and/or components … dies and bullets. I should put a caliper on the expander just to see what the dimension is, but the bullets if they end up loose are not being gripped strongly enough.
     
  2. Dudedog
    • Contributing Member

    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    Bad news if they are not tight.
    You can get bullet setback on chambering which can raise pressures to dangerous levels.
    You just can't have loose bullet IMO.
     
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  3. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Either the sizer is too big, the expander is too big, or you re crimping too much and ruining neck tension. All easy thins to check. I had to scrap my Lee dies for .32 ACP and by an RCBS set to fix my issues (not enough neck tension with some reloads). Or you could sort brass, or buy new brass, or if it is an expander issue sand down the expander/buy a new one. My issue was the sizer was too small and all three Lee ".32" sizers I had were too big. They worked great for .32 Long and .32 Mag.
     
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  4. film495

    film495 Member

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    I think the bullet moving was me crimping the same round 20 times, trying to find the right crimp to fit in the chamber. I actually tried to recreate the few dummy rounds I made that did plunk in and out correctly, but I couldn't match it. Did 5 more - each one, just sticks and will not drop back out - tapping the side of the firearm to see if it will drop out - no go; just sticks. I sort of like a cave man - just put a couple of them in the shell holder - and ganked the bullets out with a pair of plyers. Each of those 2 that I did that too and pulled - the cases just plunked in and out no problem, so - it is something up on the bullet end, bullet or case mouth. my guess case mouth, but the inked dummy's I did show wear on the bullet right above the case mouth - so, it may be to get the case to fit - it needs a good crimp - and that us bulging the bullet just enough to not fit? I just measured one again and found a .321 on the bullet just above the case mouth - where the ink plunk test showed a line around the base of the bullet.

    To continue to experiment - I ordered the Lee bullet sizer for .311, just to try that before going for the .309. My thinking was making as little change as possible might keep me from having to get other dies; maybe, maybe not.

    The RCBS expander die I have measures - .309 through the main body, and .3145 at the step right near the top.

    I got my hands on a 25/32 ACP Complete Reloading Manual from Loadbooks; lots of info in there. Haven't been through it all yet, but glad to see more info than is in the other reloading books I have - seems like a good reference to have.

    Next step - wait for the lee bullet sizing die.
     
  5. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    If you have .321 bullets, that is the issue. Measure one that has not been seated in a case yet.
     
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  6. film495

    film495 Member

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    put a caliper on one of the Berry's Bullets out of the box and it measured .313 at widest diameter at the base.
     
  7. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Then I have no clue. :)
     
  8. Bandit67

    Bandit67 Member

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    What the.....? The bullet got fatter?
     
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  9. GarrettJ

    GarrettJ Member

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    Any chance the OP is seating and crimping in one step? If over-crimping, the result is that you give the bullet a “muffin-top” at the top of the case.
     
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  10. film495

    film495 Member

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    yes, muffin top. although, I've tried it both ways - seat and crimp as one step and separate. the chamber is like a Chinese finger puzzle or something … you have to crimp the round for it to drop in the chamber or the case is too wide, then once it is crimped enough to drop in - the muffin top sticks. I got a few perfect and they drop in and out, but the tolerances are so small I could not recreate it with 5 more tries. I have the Lee bullet .311 sizer coming, but seeing they are already .313 not sure it will do what I was hoping. Do they make a .310 bullet sizer or do I have to go right down to the .309?

    The couple bullets I pulled, the amount of indentation around the diameter of the bullet from the case squeezing it was significant. I didn't measure it, but still have them in the loading room. I'm guessing now I'll probably need the .309 bullet sizer and some mod or a different expander for them to fit the case correctly.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2020
  11. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    You need to get the dies set up correctly. Yes, it is fine adjustments at the end of that. Your chamber is not a Chinese finger puzzle, it's just a chamber.
     
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  12. film495

    film495 Member

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    Eventually, I'll get it figured out. The cool thing of working with dummy rounds to test and no primers or powder, is - I can mess up as many times as needed and the only risk is wasting a few components, but I'm sure getting better with this. I can tell, because I put this on hold for a bit, and started loading some .38 Special, and it seems much easier than the first time I did it.
     
  13. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    .38 Spl is definitely easier, like falling off of a log. :)
     
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  14. 748

    748 Member

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    Some reloading stuff shows euro spec or 7.65br 32acp as being loaded to 23,000psi.
    US spec ammo is like 20,500.
    If you find old European ammo it's hot compared to US domestic market.
     
  15. film495

    film495 Member

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    thinking about this was making me nuts, so did some more testing, think this worked out pretty good

    made 5 sample dummy rounds, started at various lengths from .9645 to .9770, trying to come close to the Fiocci factory round I measured. The only one that would plunk in and out was the .9645 one, with a 1/8 turn down on the crimp die, so barely any crimp. So, I kept shortening the other ones by .001 or .002, and found when I got down to .965 or less they all started to plunk in and out no problem with a light to medium crimp.

    Fiocci Factory - My Geco Reload -
    COAL .976 .963-.965
    Rim .354 .355
    Case
    Top .3345 .336
    Middle .333 .3295
    Bottom .3335 .3345
    Bullet at case neck .309 .3135

    starting at around .99 COAL they will plunk down, but stick and don't drop back out. all I can think of is the bullet must be getting seated just to a point where it starts to narrow, and at around .965, it makes the case neck just a hair narrower to drop in and out and not stick. that's my current theory anyways - just don't have any other ideas about why it would stick, and then because of COAL, not stick at that length. Even at an inch long or a little more - they would chamber, but stick. think on of them was 1.1 or something way out of spec, and plunk it went it, just stuck. you can kind of tell getting the COAL down to .9675 they sometimes go in an out about half the time, but stick half the time. slightly smaller and in and out every time, can not make them stick - they just drop right out.

    Out of curiosity I cycled the 5 dummy rounds through the action and that seemed to work well. since I have the .311 sizing die coming, will probably do a little additional testing with that to see what effect it has, then maybe if all goes well, off to range.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
  16. fxvr5

    fxvr5 Member

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    Based on your description, it sounds like the bullet was engaging the riflings until the bullet was deep enough that it didn't. This should have showed up on the magic marker test.
     
  17. film495

    film495 Member

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    marker test, shows a line around the top of the case mouth at the crimp

    CIP spec for width of case at the top is .3354, with a note that says check for safety reasons. The top part of my case is .336 // so, I was able to make dummy rounds that chamber and cycle through the action, but being outside measurements that note safety gives me pause. There is also the mention in that Lyman manual that there are issues with .312 bullets in a .308 bore. Possibly running the bullets through the .311 sizing die will put me inside that spec. I'll find out when it gets here.

    The SAMMI spec for the same dimension is .336, with a .003 clearance to the chamber to .339. The CIP spec shows .3354 cartridge and .3366
    chamber, so - comparatively, just less tolerance/variation/clearance at that spec for CIP.

    I'm not really great at reading the specs in the CIP and SAMMI diagrams, but this is what I get out of looking at them.
     
  18. fxvr5

    fxvr5 Member

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    Without reading through all the posts again, what does your barrel measure? Is it .308"?
     
  19. film495

    film495 Member

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    I haven't slugged it yet, but it is on the list. Have to hit the LGS to find something to slug it with. I have some swaged .358 bullets, but fear they would just get stuck in the bore.
     
  20. Blue68f100

    Blue68f100 Member

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    You want to use pure 100% lead for slugging. Otherwise it takes way to much force to form the bullet down. Some sources for these are fishing weights, but you need to check since some are now made of zinc. Round balls used in muzzle loading are good too.
     
  21. film495

    film495 Member

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    What size round balls .31, .315, or larger like .35? or even larger .395?
     
  22. MZ5

    MZ5 Member

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    .31” may not be large enough. Even .315” _may_ not be, though it _should_ be. Fishing sinkers have always been easiest + cheapest for me.
     
  23. film495

    film495 Member

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    slugged bore a few times, came out to .309

    tried .311 sizing die, and it does size the bullet down from .3125 to .3110 -, so 1.5 thousands smaller

    with the bullets sized down a little I did some more test dummy rounds. It seemed to make no appreciable difference in COAL and chambering, they still start to plunk in and out consistently at .965

    I didn't have time to do any further measuring or looking at if this will be satisfactory enough to consider making some live rounds.
     
  24. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    And there you have it.:thumbup:
     
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  25. TTv2

    TTv2 Member

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    OP, I wouldn't be too concerned if using the Berry's bullets for reloading as they are plated bullets, not true FMJ. The copper plating is pretty thin (.003 thick I believe) so it's not like you're trying to swage a solid copper projectile down a bore that is .0035" smaller in the grooves and much smaller in the lands.

    For this situation tho, definitely start at starting loads listed in published data.
     
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