700 ADL vs SPS...at 1000 yards

[bgrav321]

So if an ADL with a heavy contour 26" varmint barrel (.820 at the muzzle) with a free floated barrel in a B and C tactical stock, with good glass, were to shoot against an SPS tactical with a 20 or 22" barrel (.850 at the muzzle) in the same stock and with the same glass and with the same shooter, how would that go? I am familiar with the thought that shorter and stiffer barrels are tighter grouping but that longer barrels increase velocity to the tune of approx 20fps per inch. Thoughts?

I can get one for 380, and the other I am hard pressed to find for under 650. That's a lot (or not) of match ammo and fuel to drive to shoot at long ranges. Or to spend on glass. Also, the stock I am using already has a DBM setup in it with a magazine and the trigger guard, etc so the hinged floorplate is academic.

 

[Abel]

With a plastic stock, the SPS is at a disadvantage. If you know that you'd be happy with the B&C, go with the more expensive rifle. If you know that you will just upgrade to a nicer McMillan later on, go with the SPS. The short SPS barrel can eventually be upgraded to a 24" or a 26" when you decide that your first barrel is shot out.

 

[allaroundhunter]

The added barrel length does not add 20 fps/inch, it adds about 50 fps/inch. The 26" barrel is a much better choice if you are going to do some 1,000 yard shooting as it is harder to keep a .308 supersonic at that distance from a 20" barrel (the Tactical does not have a 22" barrel).

However if you want to do well at 1,000 yards, then you need to get in the hand loading game.

Sent from my HTC One X

 

[bgrav321]

I know that for the time being I am going to use the factory barrels. Does anyone know if the SPS tactical is somehow better from the factory than the ADL barrel? Seems a bit silly to pay an extra 300 dollars for a hinged floorplate. Makes me wonder if I am missing something.

Thanks for the helpful answers already, I would like to avoid trans-sonic excitement if I can, another point for the ADL. I already bought the B and C stock along with the DBM stuff already installed. The deal was too good to pass up.

 

[chaser_2332]

Same barrel same actions no difference other than length which doesn't matter

 

[USSR]

So if an ADL with a heavy contour 26" varmint barrel (.820 at the muzzle) with a free floated barrel in a B and C tactical stock, with good glass, were to shoot against an SPS tactical with a 20 or 22" barrel (.850 at the muzzle) in the same stock and with the same glass and with the same shooter, how would that go?

bgrav321,

It's not which model in which configuration is more accurate than another, it's which particular rifle is more accurate than another. You could get a particular rifle from the factory in either model that is steller or a stinker. However, as allaroundhunter pointed out, the 26" barreled rifle is a much better option for shooting at 1,000 yards, as the .308 is a marginal cartridge at 1,000 yards, and you need all the velocity you can get.

Don

 

[taliv]

are the twists on those two barrels the same?

 

[bgrav321]

Looks like the ADL is 1 in 10, the SPS tactical is 1 in 12.

 

[X-Rap]

See #6
You could probably line up 10 of each and 2 or 3 of each would shoot very well and the same number would stink.
At the distances you are talking there will probably have to be some work done on any stock gun to perform.

 

[adelbridge]

I would take the ADL in the B&C stock without a question, if it didnt shoot I would sell off the rem barrel and put on a quality barrel.

 

[bgrav321]

Adelbridge that is the way I am leaning, any particular reasoning behind your suggestion?

X-Rap, I have read widely that 700s have an out of the box sub minute guarantee with match ammo. Is their QC that bad?

 

[X-Rap]

I'd have to take any sub min guarantee with a grain of salt and expecting that to simply transfer to the same at 1000 yds isn't realistic.
Not saying Rem is any worse than others either, just saying that out of the box all things being equal you will find some that have a decent trigger, bore, bedding etc.
I'm not an accomplished 1000 yd shooter so wait for them to weigh in, I just thing that aside from the obvious loss of velocity with the shorter barrel there probably isn't a huge difference in either gun but more a luck of the draw type thing.

 

[C-grunt]

If your goal is long range shooting go with the longer barrel. Higher muzzle velocity means less drop and wind drift. Wind drift is going to be your biggest obstacle at that range.

 

[adelbridge]

Adelbridge that is the way I am leaning, any particular reasoning behind your suggestion?

X-Rap, I have read widely that 700s have an out of the box sub minute guarantee with match ammo. Is their QC that bad?

the B&C Stock is at least a $250 upgrade and a solid foundation for a nice build. If the gun shoots under moa leave well enough alone. If you are gettign 1.5 MOA at 100 yards play around with ammo and maybe upgrade the trigger. A lot of manufacturers guarantee MOA or better at 100 yards and it more a gimmick than anything. How many guns do you think get returned because they shoot 1.5 MOA? Today's manufacturing tolerances are pretty decent when it comes to an OK mass produced product. That said Remington 700s can be trued up to produce fantastic results but then you have to reload to get peak performance and you might come to realize that shooting a .308 at 1000 yards is like drag racing a mini van.

 

[bgrav321]

I think hand loading will be a must as well, now to find the parts in this climate...

Thanks all for the helpful answers.

bgrav

 

[jmr40]

The added barrel length does not add 20 fps/inch, it adds about 50 fps/inch. The 26" barrel is a much better choice if you are going to do some 1,000 yard shooting

Not true, Beyond 22" I doubt you'd see 15 fps advantge per inch. The only way you'd see 50 fps/inch differnce is when you get down to barrels that are too short to be legal. The difference between a 12" and 13" 308 barrel might be 50 fps.

That said the difference between 20" and 26" could be easily 100 fps or slighty more. For normal ranges, 400 and less it wouldn't matter. At 1,000 yards a 308 needs all the help it can get and I'd not discount an extra 100 fps. In fact this would be a case where a 28 or 30" barrel could help to get another 30-50 fps over a 24" barrel. It is when people sweat blood over 2"-4" when they are never going to shoot over 300-400 yards that don't make sense.

I don't like any of the factory stocks so for my money I'd buy the ADL and spend the money saved on the rifle for a better stock if I were serious about 1000 yards.

If 400-500 is as far as I planned on shooting I like the shorter barrel. Either way I'd trash the factroy stock and a B&C is a good option for the sps

 

[USSR]

Quote:
The added barrel length does not add 20 fps/inch, it adds about 50 fps/inch. The 26" barrel is a much better choice if you are going to do some 1,000 yard shooting

Not true, Beyond 22" I doubt you'd see 15 fps advantge per inch. The only way you'd see 50 fps/inch differnce is when you get down to barrels that are too short to be legal. The difference between a 12" and 13" 308 barrel might be 50 fps.

Absolutely no way of knowing the velocity change from one barrel length to another. For example, I have 2 .30-06 match rifles, both of which have 26" barrels, and using the exact same load, one gets 2950fps and the other 2875fps. In many cases, shorter barrels from high quality barrel makers will give higher velocities than longer factory barrels.

Don

 

[allaroundhunter]

I just added what I concluded from an average of 4 barrels. 2 Remington 700 SPS Varmints averaged a MV of 2,875 fps and 2 Remington 700 SPS Tacticals averaged a MV of 2,600 fps. This equates to roughly 50 fps/inch of extra barrel.

 

[bgrav321]

Thanks again all for the helpful replies, hopefully the next stage of my project will happen in the next two weeks, and I'll be buying an ADL. Being in sales means that you get a good tax return...

 

[Bobson]

Are you planning on keeping this thread updated along the course of the project, bgrav? It'd be nice if you could.

 

[dubbleA]

I just added what I concluded from an average of 4 barrels. 2 Remington 700 SPS Varmints averaged a MV of 2,875 fps and 2 Remington 700 SPS Tacticals averaged a MV of 2,600 fps. This equates to roughly 50 fps/inch of extra barrel.

Again this is comparing 4 different barrels so there are many variables between each one.

Several years ago I purchased a SPS varminter in 308 with the 26 inch barrel for a future build . It was a very good shooter right out of the box. I soon grew tired of the long bbl and cut it back to 20 inches, recrowned and installed a muzzle brake. The rifle again continued to shoot great. Using the same exact handloads with 155,168 and 175gr pills I lost on average 75fps with 6 inches less barrel.

I did the same with a Savage 10FP with simular results. Overall the later is slightly faster than the M700 with the same 20 inch length bbl.

The little 308 Win is an efficient cartridge and does well with shorter barrels. I like the way the shorter rifles handleespecially when suppressed but only get out to 700yds on a regular basis.

 

[bgrav321]

Sure can Bobson. Will be gradual over time but I am definitely going this way. I have also managed to secure an 800 yd shooting area on some private land so as I practice I am looking forward to my own improvement over time.

 

[Mobuck]

You'll have difficulty keeping a suitable bullet super sonic @ 1000 yards from a 20" barrel.