77 SMK with 8208xbr

[Bfh_auto]

After trying 4 different powders with 75 gr Hornady, I tried 77SMKs.
The best I got out of the 75gr was a 1 1/4" 5 shot group with 8208xbr.
Working to the 23.1grains gave me a 3/4" 5 shot group @2630 with an extreme spread of 15.
I bracketed either side of the powder charge and got just over an inch with the extreme spread going to nearly 75 fps.

 

[Blue68f100]

Precision is not all about the bullet/powder. It a combinations of things, including the gun and operator. Some times combinations do not work as we like.

I'm assuming 223R but could be something else. 224V

 

[Bfh_auto]

Precision is not all about the bullet/powder. It a combinations of things, including the gun and operator. Some times combinations do not work as we like.

I'm assuming 223R but could be something else. 224V

Yes. 556 chamber.
Getting good trigger control with the AR was a little more difficult than my bolt actions.
Both factory and hand loads didn't give me acceptable groups with the 75hpbt.
Factory 77SMK out did my 75gr hand loads so I bought some to load and am pleased with the results.

 

[rskent]

Have you tried Varget under your match kings?

 

[Bfh_auto]

Have you tried Varget under your match kings?

No, I don't have Varget. I might try it after I burn this 8208 up. But at the moment I'm content. 3/4" 5 shot groups are good enough for a factory Carbine.

 

[Toprudder]

I’ve had good luck with 8208 and 75bthp in my 20” Wylde AR. Generally I get better than 1”, usually .75, with an occasional 0.5 5 shot groups. My accuracy node is 23.1gn also.

Early on I tried 77 but only with Varget. I did not get any better grouping than I did with 75bthp, but I need to go back and try them with 8208.

Today I am heading to the range to test some longer-than-mag length loads with the 75bthp.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I’ve had good luck with 8208 and 75bthp in my 20” Wylde AR. Generally I get better than 1”, usually .75, with an occasional 0.5 5 shot groups. My accuracy node is 23.1gn also.

Early on I tried 77 but only with Varget. I did not get any better grouping than I did with 75bthp, but I need to go back and try them with 8208.

Today I am heading to the range to test some longer-than-mag length loads with the 75bthp.

That's good. I wonder if being a Wylde chamber helps it shoot the 75 hpbt?
In other calibers, I've had the best luck sticking Hornady bullets in or near the lands. Sierra bullets don't seem to care as much.

 

[Blue68f100]

The Wylde chamber was designed for those who want to shoot longer bullets than a magazine can hold. It has a long lead which helps keep the pressure down at the start. It's very similar to a 556 chamber. The one I had would not shoot anything accurately under 60 gr. The 65gr SGK & 69gr SMK it would shoot dime size groups using Varget or Tac. Never did shoot anything heavier. Shot the barrel out trying to get the light stuff to shoot.

I've been testing the 75gr ELD's in my 224 Val. Results look promising so far, still testing.

 

[Toprudder]

Went to the range today. The loads I made that were 2.330” OAL were half the group size that my mag-length rounds were. I had some longer ones, 2.375”, that were about 0.020” off the lands, but they were not as accurate. The nice thing about the 2.330” length is that I can modify mags so they will fit.

I just bought another 223W barrel, and when I checked it, it has 0.075” less jump then my other. I shot some of my regular loads in it today to break it in, and was already getting decent groups with it. Hope it gets even better.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Went to the range today. The loads I made that were 2.330” OAL were half the group size that my mag-length rounds were. I had some longer ones, 2.375”, that were about 0.020” off the lands, but they were not as accurate. The nice thing about the 2.330” length is that I can modify mags so they will fit.

I just bought another 223W barrel, and when I checked it, it has 0.075” less jump then my other. I shot some of my regular loads in it today to break it in, and was already getting decent groups with it. Hope it gets even better.

I'm glad they work well for you. Hornady generally give good performance at a great price. I will probably end up with a Wylde barrel when I shoot this one out.
I am using this one as stepping stone into the AR platform.

 

[Charlie98]

Do you have an aftermarket grip on your AR? (I'm assuming you are shooting an AR.) I found a bigger hand-filling grip to be a huge help with trigger control vs the stock AR grip, even something as simple and cheap as a Magpul MOE.

 

[brasscollector]

I get around 3/4" with the 75 hpbt and 23.2gr. I've also had much better accuracy from most loads by switching to a fed 205MAR vs the CCI #41. I'm running a wylde chamber with an 8" twist.

 

[Toprudder]

Do you have an aftermarket grip on your AR? (I'm assuming you are shooting an AR.) I found a bigger hand-filling grip to be a huge help with trigger control vs the stock AR grip, even something as simple and cheap as a Magpul MOE.

Yes, I think it is a Magpul K2. Bench resting, I try not to grip tightly anyway, the less I touch the gun, the better.

I get around 3/4" with the 75 hpbt and 23.2gr. I've also had much better accuracy from most loads by switching to a fed 205MAR vs the CCI #41. I'm running a wylde chamber with an 8" twist.

23.1gn of 8208, with Hornady 75bthp, seems to be the sweet spot. I, too, have switched to the Federal MAR primers. My AR is a 20" 1:8 Wylde as well.

I have a new Bear Creek 24" Wylde barrel that I picked up on sale. I had a quality control issue with my first one, the one I have now is a replacement. I will see how it shoots, but the first trip to the range showed promise.

The Sierra or Berger bullets have done well, but I really want to make the Hornady bullet work as it is MUCH less expensive than the others.

 

[Bfh_auto]

The cost of bullets was why I started with Hornady. I usually get very good accuracy with the Vmax and Amax bullets in my other rifles. I'm going to borrow my brother's pistol grip and see if it changes anything.

 

[Kaldor]

After trying 4 different powders with 75 gr Hornady, I tried 77SMKs.
The best I got out of the 75gr was a 1 1/4" 5 shot group with 8208xbr.
Working to the 23.1grains gave me a 3/4" 5 shot group @2630 with an extreme spread of 15.
I bracketed either side of the powder charge and got just over an inch with the extreme spread going to nearly 75 fps.

23.1gr of 8208 with 77gr SMK and TMKs was the magic number for me as well. Multiple 5 shot groups under 1/2". Its an excellent powder for 68s and 69s as well.

In spite of what everyone says, dont waste your time with Varget. It has a tendency to create too much port pressure, which in turn beats up your brass with premature unlocking of the action and beats up your rifle. 8202 is far superior in a gas gun and meters about a 1000% better. Varget is better in a bolt gun with longer barrel where it has time to burn completely.

 

[Bfh_auto]

23.1gr of 8208 with 77gr SMK and TMKs was the magic number for me as well. Multiple 5 shot groups under 1/2". Its an excellent powder for 68s and 69s as well.

In spite of what everyone says, dont waste your time with Varget. It has a tendency to create too much port pressure, which in turn beats up your brass with premature unlocking of the action and beats up your rifle. 8202 is far superior in a gas gun and meters about a 1000% better. Varget is better in a bolt gun with longer barrel where it has time to burn completely.

That doesn't surprise me. IMR4064 was pretty hard on the brass and it's very close to Varget.
I was hoping H4895, 8208 or CFE223 would work. I'm going to retest the other 2 with the SMK when I get a chance.

 

[Blue68f100]

23.1gr of 8208 with 77gr SMK and TMKs was the magic number for me as well. Multiple 5 shot groups under 1/2". Its an excellent powder for 68s and 69s as well.

In spite of what everyone says, dont waste your time with Varget. It has a tendency to create too much port pressure, which in turn beats up your brass with premature unlocking of the action and beats up your rifle. 8202 is far superior in a gas gun and meters about a 1000% better. Varget is better in a bolt gun with longer barrel where it has time to burn completely.

I run adj gas ports on all my AR's, Never have a problem with it. Most AR's are over gassed to work with all types of ammo.

 

[Gtscotty]

23.1gr of 8208 with 77gr SMK and TMKs was the magic number for me as well. Multiple 5 shot groups under 1/2". Its an excellent powder for 68s and 69s as well.

That's about where I'm settling as well with 8208 and the 75gr Hornadys.

I was looking for a load in the 23.2gr - 23.4gr range and shot group on the right, right before I left for the day with rounds I had left over that had originally been loaded up to get the scope back on target after remounting a few trips before. After the first 4 shots I decided to save the 5th and take it home to make sure the OAL and charge weight were what I thought they were.


Tried the 23gr load again last time and it looks so be more consistent than 23.4gr., time to pump out a decent sized batch and see what they do at longer range.


My main load in this rifle is 69gr Nosler CCs over 23.9gr of 8208. 55gr over 25.5gr of 8208 does well too. Varget has performed for me over the full range as well, but 8208 just throws so much better that my inclination is to use it for everything I can.

 

[Kaldor]

I run adj gas ports on all my AR's, Never have a problem with it. Most AR's are over gassed to work with all types of ammo.

I agree 100%! For the average guy, with a rifle that he purchased complete for a reasonable price, Varget is not a good choice. For those of us that run adjustable gas blocks, sure, have at it I also consider that for shorter barreled guns like 16" and lower, I consider an adjustable gas block mandatory with some exceptions. I do not run adjustable gas blocks, but with rifle length gas system, M16 carriers, and heavy buffers, Im far from over gassed with ejection at a consistent 4:00 on all 4 of my rifles. Most factory guns are not tuned that well.

I do not run Varget in my 223 largely because of volume of loading on a progressive. Varget cuts kernels to the point Ive crushed cases, and only holds about +/- .2gr in my Hornady drop, but 8208 meters great and hold at about +/- .05gr. Im working on building a 223 bolt rifle this spring, and I will test Varget in that because its a different animal and will load those on a single stage.

 

[Kaldor]

That doesn't surprise me. IMR4064 was pretty hard on the brass and it's very close to Varget.
I was hoping H4895, 8208 or CFE223 would work. I'm going to retest the other 2 with the SMK when I get a chance.

Interesting on 4064 beating up your brass. It falls between 8202 and Varget in burn rate. I have never used it though, so I cant say. I have had some good luck with H4895, but I stopped using it in 223 because I hated metering it.

Ive had really good luck with CFE 223 behind 53s and 55s, but it can be peaky hitting over pressure quickly. I also has about the same supposed burn rate as Varget, but it just seems faster. But we are comparing apples to oranges, CFE 223 is a fine ball, and Varget is a long stick.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I run adj gas ports on all my AR's, Never have a problem with it. Most AR's are over gassed to work with all types of ammo.

Mine8drugstore

Interesting on 4064 beating up your brass. It falls between 8202 and Varget in burn rate. I have never used it though, so I cant say. I have had some good luck with H4895, but I stopped using it in 223 because I hated metering it.

Ive had really good luck with CFE 223 behind 53s and 55s, but it can be peaky hitting over pressure quickly. I also has about the same supposed burn rate as Varget, but it just seems faster. But we are comparing apples to oranges, CFE 223 is a fine ball, and Varget is a long stick.

Mine is over gassed. I just got a h3 buffer in so I can play around with switching weights.
CFE runs pretty good in it.

 

[Kaldor]

Mine8drugstore

Mine is over gassed. I just got a h3 buffer in so I can play around with switching weights.
CFE runs pretty good in it.

Rifle length gas system makes a huge difference. There was a reason Stoner designed the platform that way, but it took the US Government to screw it up.

But like @Blue68f100 and me said before, if you are having over gassing issues, the only real way to cure it is to change the gas block to an adjustable. This will save your brass, and reduce the overall recoil of the rifle.

 

[Gtscotty]

Rifle length gas system makes a huge difference. There was a reason Stoner designed the platform that way, but it took the US Government to screw it up.

But like @Blue68f100 and me said before, if you are having over gassing issues, the only real way to cure it is to change the gas block to an adjustable. This will save your brass, and reduce the overall recoil of the rifle.

I run a tuneable gas block and rifle length gas system on my 18" .233 Wylde, and it really makes for a sweet shooting, nearly recoilless rig , even though it's suppressed 90% of the time.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Rifle length gas system makes a huge difference. There was a reason Stoner designed the platform that way, but it took the US Government to screw it up.

But like @Blue68f100 and me said before, if you are having over gassing issues, the only real way to cure it is to change the gas block to an adjustable. This will save your brass, and reduce the overall recoil of the rifle.

I was going to go that route, but was told that a heavier buffer was abetter option.

 

[Kaldor]

I was going to go that route, but was told that a heavier buffer was abetter option.

Cheaper, but not always better but for some guns, thats all it needs. My guns all have H2 buffers in them, and in combination with the M16 weight carrier, its enough. Depending on the barrel manufacturer, they may drill the gas port slightly oversize, which in turn over gasses the action.

I will will be changing my 18" rifle length gas gun when I set it up for a suppressor this spring. That will use a lightweight BCG, adjustable gas block, and a JP buffer and spring setup. The idea is to drive the recoil down as much as possible, make it work with a suppressor with no issues, and have it utterly reliable.