Im looking to buy my son a new rifle for hunting this year. He says my 270 is a bit tough on his shoulder. I feel the 243 is not enough power for him because he might be hunting black bear too. I was thinking more in terms of the 7mm-08 or the 25-06. How are the recoil of these compared to the 270? Which do you think is a better choice? I do not handload so i will only be using factory bullets. Any results on game with these rifles and good ammunition as well?
7mm-08 recoil
- Thread starter hunter06
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The search tool will provide a lot of information also.
I would stay with one of the .308 based calibers (243, 260, 7mm08). They seem to have a great balance of recoil vs. terminal performance. Either way, using a bullet of the proper construction for the intended game and shot placement would allow you to get away with a slightly smaller cartridge.
The 25-06, while it does use light bullets, is still sitting on top of a big case for a boy.
If you decided to go down the handloading road (a hobby unto itself that you could enjoy together), you would have a lot more options (bullet choice, velocity and in turn the amount of recoil).
Ed
The search tool will provide a lot of information also.
I would stay with one of the .308 based calibers (243, 260, 7mm08). They seem to have a great balance of recoil vs. terminal performance. Either way, using a bullet of the proper construction for the intended game and shot placement would allow you to get away with a slightly smaller cartridge.
The 25-06, while it does use light bullets, is still sitting on top of a big case for a boy.
If you decided to go down the handloading road (a hobby unto itself that you could enjoy together), you would have a lot more options (bullet choice, velocity and in turn the amount of recoil).
Ed
MCgunner
Member
7-08 is lighter on the shoulder than .270 and .260 Remington might be a little better. My old favorite in my safe is my old 722 Remington in .257 Roberts. It'll take any black bear that walks with a 117 grain Hornady interlock at3050 fps. It's a handloaders caliber, though, but it'll come pretty close to the .25-06 and is based on the 7x57 case and is lighter on the shoulder. It shoots heavier bullets than the 6mms. Danged fine old rifle and very accurate. I also had a sweet old Mauser in 7x57 for a while. It was a rather heavy gun and recoil was not an issue, similar ballistically to the 7-08.
I think you're going to come closest to what you're looking for with the .260, the 7-08, or a 7x57 if you don't handload. If you handload and ran across a deal on a .257 Roberts, that's a fantastic caliber for deer sized game and even hogs with heavy bullets and would take a bear just fine. Never forget the old .30-30, too. Lots of kids killed their first deer with the thuddy thuddy and with a 160 Partition, a black bear is no match for it, powerful way beyond its numbers in my experience. With Hornady leverlution it can even reach out there to near 300 yards.
I think you're going to come closest to what you're looking for with the .260, the 7-08, or a 7x57 if you don't handload. If you handload and ran across a deal on a .257 Roberts, that's a fantastic caliber for deer sized game and even hogs with heavy bullets and would take a bear just fine. Never forget the old .30-30, too. Lots of kids killed their first deer with the thuddy thuddy and with a 160 Partition, a black bear is no match for it, powerful way beyond its numbers in my experience. With Hornady leverlution it can even reach out there to near 300 yards.
Hows about installing a recoil pad on the 270? Use 130's.
See if Remington makes the reduced recoil rounds in 270?
Big difference in felt recoil between in the 30-06 and 270 we have, both shooting 150 grain bullets with a pad on the 270. Same make and model guns.
See if Remington makes the reduced recoil rounds in 270?
Big difference in felt recoil between in the 30-06 and 270 we have, both shooting 150 grain bullets with a pad on the 270. Same make and model guns.
Flintknapper
Member
Felt recoil from most rifles (6-7 lb) chambered for 7mm-08 is very mild.
Big jump down from .270
7mm-08 in with a 140 gr. bullet is very close to the .270 in ballistics. Its just about the perfect deer cartridge IMO.
Big jump down from .270
7mm-08 in with a 140 gr. bullet is very close to the .270 in ballistics. Its just about the perfect deer cartridge IMO.
i have a 25-06 and a 7-08. i really like 'em both, but for your purposes a 7-08 is the way to go. the 25-06, while fairly mild in recoil, definitely kicks harder than my lighter 7-08.
i'm a huge fan of the 7-08, and i know of nobody that hunts one that has ever been dissatisfied.
i'm a huge fan of the 7-08, and i know of nobody that hunts one that has ever been dissatisfied.
birdbustr
Member
Not too much difference between a 7mm-08 and a 270.
Flintnapper.....What? How can it be a "BIG JUMP".
It's .270 vs .284, and both rounds will hurl a bullets at darn near identical speeds. If anything the 7mm bullet diameter would make a little more kick. .14 is just not much difference. 
I agree above with the options of shooting a lighter bullet, and/or putting on another recoil pad. If it's just at the range that bothers him let him know that there is no shame in having a shoulder pad between the rifle and his shoulder. Besides, how long is this going to be an issue. He'll grow into this rifle and even be able to handle anything beyond soon enough.
Flintnapper.....What? How can it be a "BIG JUMP".
It's .270 vs .284, and both rounds will hurl a bullets at darn near identical speeds. If anything the 7mm bullet diameter would make a little more kick. .14 is just not much difference. I agree above with the options of shooting a lighter bullet, and/or putting on another recoil pad. If it's just at the range that bothers him let him know that there is no shame in having a shoulder pad between the rifle and his shoulder. Besides, how long is this going to be an issue. He'll grow into this rifle and even be able to handle anything beyond soon enough.
sixgunner455
Member
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- Aug 25, 2006
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- 3,052
Depending on how you hunt, a .30-30 would do. Less recoil, and plenty of power.
birdbustr
Member
I used a recoil calculator from http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/cgi-bin/jbmrecoil.cgi.
Using the fastest factory loads I could find in the Hornady light magnums. I also used the rifle weight at 8 lbs for all three calculations.
.270 win 3100 fps/2987 ftlbs. 140gr bullet = recoil 18.2 lbs.
7mm-08 3000 fps/2777 ftlbs. 139gr bullet = recoil 15.8 lbs.
25-06 3110 fts/2512 ftlbs. 117gr bullet = recoil 14.7 lbs.
OK so the 7mm-08 is about 2.4 lbs less than the .270. Not too significant to me, but might be enough of a difference for a smaller shooter. Also, in 7mm-08 I use a 130grain in a Speer Hot Core SP with 46 grains of Varget estimated at 14.6 lbs. of recoil. So maybe it is enough of a difference to consider a different cartridge.
Using the fastest factory loads I could find in the Hornady light magnums. I also used the rifle weight at 8 lbs for all three calculations.
.270 win 3100 fps/2987 ftlbs. 140gr bullet = recoil 18.2 lbs.
7mm-08 3000 fps/2777 ftlbs. 139gr bullet = recoil 15.8 lbs.
25-06 3110 fts/2512 ftlbs. 117gr bullet = recoil 14.7 lbs.
OK so the 7mm-08 is about 2.4 lbs less than the .270. Not too significant to me, but might be enough of a difference for a smaller shooter. Also, in 7mm-08 I use a 130grain in a Speer Hot Core SP with 46 grains of Varget estimated at 14.6 lbs. of recoil. So maybe it is enough of a difference to consider a different cartridge.
one-shot-one
Member
measured recoil and felt recoil is two different things.
never fired a 7mm-08 but the felt recoil difference between the 30-06's 270's and 25-06's that i have fired is not enough to make me prefer one over the other. if buying a new gun for your son and really concerned about recoil i would go with the .260, my 6.5X55 is ballisticly the same and with a steel butt plate it is still mild on the shoulder and plenty for 400 lb. or lower black bear.
never fired a 7mm-08 but the felt recoil difference between the 30-06's 270's and 25-06's that i have fired is not enough to make me prefer one over the other. if buying a new gun for your son and really concerned about recoil i would go with the .260, my 6.5X55 is ballisticly the same and with a steel butt plate it is still mild on the shoulder and plenty for 400 lb. or lower black bear.
Jimmy Newman
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Birdbustr,
While I shoot the 3000fps 7mm-08 load you have in your chart, it should be noted that Hornady's non-light mag load and everyone else's 7mm-08 loads around 140 grains run 2800-2850 fps (significantly less recoil). The 3000fps/139gr load is about identical to most 140gr .270 loads.
I started shooting a light 7mm-08 rifle when I was nine years old. I don't think it's a hard recoiling cartridge, especially with the non-Hornady light mag loads and a decent recoil pad.
While I shoot the 3000fps 7mm-08 load you have in your chart, it should be noted that Hornady's non-light mag load and everyone else's 7mm-08 loads around 140 grains run 2800-2850 fps (significantly less recoil). The 3000fps/139gr load is about identical to most 140gr .270 loads.
I started shooting a light 7mm-08 rifle when I was nine years old. I don't think it's a hard recoiling cartridge, especially with the non-Hornady light mag loads and a decent recoil pad.
Flintknapper
Member
birdbustr wrote:
Please note: I posted my opinion based on "felt/perceived" recoil. That is very different than calculated recoil (especially using your figures). Felt recoil is more a product of "recoil impulse" or recoil velocity.
Of course, each person will have a different sensitivity to recoil, and so we find the term "perceived recoil" a bit subjective.
I stand by my statement however, that 7mm-08 is much more "manageable" than a .270 for most folks.
Lets look at some more common loads (and figures). I think you'll find the 7mm-08 coming in with about 30% less recoil. I'd say that is significant (if not huge).
Note that in an 8-lb. rifle, the 7mm-08 recoil energy is 12.6, the same as a 25-06. But it shoots flatter than a .308, almost as flat as a .270, and hits almost as hard as a 130-gr. .270 -- with 30 percent LESS recoil! (16.5-12.6 = 3.9, /12.6 = 30%)
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Caliber/bullet weight and muzzle velocity/rifle weight/recoil energy/recoil velocity.
243 Win. (75 at 3400) 8.5 7.2 7.4
.243 Win. (100 at 2960) 7.5 8.8 8.7
6mm Rem. (100 at 3100) 8.0 10.0 9.0
.243 WSSM (100 at 3100) 7.5 10.1 9.3
.240 Wby. Mag. (100 at 3406) 8.0 17.9 n/a
.257 Roberts (117 at 2650) 8.0 9.0 n/a
.25 WSSM (120 at 2990) 7.25 13.8 11.1
.25-06 Rem. (120 at 3000) 8.0 12.5 10.0
.257 Wby. Mag. (120 at 3300) 9.25 15.1 10.3
6.5x55 Swede (140 at 2650) 9.0 10.6 8.7
.260 Rem. (140 at 2750) 7.5 13.6 10.8
6.5mm Rem. Mag. (120 at 3100) 8.0 13.1 10.3
6.5x68 S (140 at 2990) 8.5 16.8 11.3
.264 Win. Mag. (140 at 3200) 8.5 19.2 12.1
.270 Win. (130 at 3140) 8.0 16.5 n/a
.270 Win. (150 at 2900) 8.0 17.0 11.7
.270 WSM (150 at 3000) 8.0 18.9 12.3
.270 Wby. Mag. (150 at 3000) 9.25 17.8 11.1
7x57 Mauser (139 at 2800) 8.0 14.0 10.6
7mm-08 Rem. (140 at 2860) 8.0 12.6 10.1
.280 Rem. (140 at 3000) 8.0 17.2 11.8
7mm Rem. SAUM (160 at 2931) 8.0 21.5 13.2
7mm WSM (160 at 3000) 8.0 21.9 13.3
7mm Rem. Mag. (140 at 3150) 8.0 19.1 12.4
7mm Rem. Mag. (150 at 3100) 8.5 19.2 12.1
7mm Wby. Mag. (140 at 3300) 9.25 19.5 11.7
7mm Ultra Mag. (160 at 3200) 8.5 29.4 n/a
.30 Carbine (110 at 1990) 7.0 3.5 5.7
.30-30 Win. (150 at 2400) 7.5 10.6 9.5
.30-30 Win. (170 at 2200) 7.5 11.0 9.7
.300 Sav. (150 at 2630) 7.5 14.8 n/a
.308 Win. (150 at 2800) 7.5 15.8 11.7
.308 Win. (180 at 2610) 8.0 17.5 11.9
.30-06 Spfd. (150 at 2910) 8.0 17.6 11.9
.30-06 Spfd. (180 at 2700) 8.0 20.3 12.8
Thanks for your input and thoughts,
Flint.
Please note: I posted my opinion based on "felt/perceived" recoil. That is very different than calculated recoil (especially using your figures). Felt recoil is more a product of "recoil impulse" or recoil velocity.
Of course, each person will have a different sensitivity to recoil, and so we find the term "perceived recoil" a bit subjective.
I stand by my statement however, that 7mm-08 is much more "manageable" than a .270 for most folks.
Lets look at some more common loads (and figures). I think you'll find the 7mm-08 coming in with about 30% less recoil. I'd say that is significant (if not huge).
Note that in an 8-lb. rifle, the 7mm-08 recoil energy is 12.6, the same as a 25-06. But it shoots flatter than a .308, almost as flat as a .270, and hits almost as hard as a 130-gr. .270 -- with 30 percent LESS recoil! (16.5-12.6 = 3.9, /12.6 = 30%)
_______________________________________________________________
Caliber/bullet weight and muzzle velocity/rifle weight/recoil energy/recoil velocity.
243 Win. (75 at 3400) 8.5 7.2 7.4
.243 Win. (100 at 2960) 7.5 8.8 8.7
6mm Rem. (100 at 3100) 8.0 10.0 9.0
.243 WSSM (100 at 3100) 7.5 10.1 9.3
.240 Wby. Mag. (100 at 3406) 8.0 17.9 n/a
.257 Roberts (117 at 2650) 8.0 9.0 n/a
.25 WSSM (120 at 2990) 7.25 13.8 11.1
.25-06 Rem. (120 at 3000) 8.0 12.5 10.0
.257 Wby. Mag. (120 at 3300) 9.25 15.1 10.3
6.5x55 Swede (140 at 2650) 9.0 10.6 8.7
.260 Rem. (140 at 2750) 7.5 13.6 10.8
6.5mm Rem. Mag. (120 at 3100) 8.0 13.1 10.3
6.5x68 S (140 at 2990) 8.5 16.8 11.3
.264 Win. Mag. (140 at 3200) 8.5 19.2 12.1
.270 Win. (130 at 3140) 8.0 16.5 n/a
.270 Win. (150 at 2900) 8.0 17.0 11.7
.270 WSM (150 at 3000) 8.0 18.9 12.3
.270 Wby. Mag. (150 at 3000) 9.25 17.8 11.1
7x57 Mauser (139 at 2800) 8.0 14.0 10.6
7mm-08 Rem. (140 at 2860) 8.0 12.6 10.1
.280 Rem. (140 at 3000) 8.0 17.2 11.8
7mm Rem. SAUM (160 at 2931) 8.0 21.5 13.2
7mm WSM (160 at 3000) 8.0 21.9 13.3
7mm Rem. Mag. (140 at 3150) 8.0 19.1 12.4
7mm Rem. Mag. (150 at 3100) 8.5 19.2 12.1
7mm Wby. Mag. (140 at 3300) 9.25 19.5 11.7
7mm Ultra Mag. (160 at 3200) 8.5 29.4 n/a
.30 Carbine (110 at 1990) 7.0 3.5 5.7
.30-30 Win. (150 at 2400) 7.5 10.6 9.5
.30-30 Win. (170 at 2200) 7.5 11.0 9.7
.300 Sav. (150 at 2630) 7.5 14.8 n/a
.308 Win. (150 at 2800) 7.5 15.8 11.7
.308 Win. (180 at 2610) 8.0 17.5 11.9
.30-06 Spfd. (150 at 2910) 8.0 17.6 11.9
.30-06 Spfd. (180 at 2700) 8.0 20.3 12.8
Thanks for your input and thoughts,
Flint.
Last edited:
skinewmexico
Member
Depends on the rifle. I have a Howa Youth 1500 in 7mm-08 that is very unpleasant to shoot. A lot worse than my 25-06. Just get a caliber you think will work, and put a Limbsaver on it. I used to make my son shoot his 270 as punishment. Well, he considered it punishement, at least. Then I put a limbsaver on it (plastic Savage 110), and he shot up 2 boxes of shells at one sitting. If you're hunting bear, I wouldn't go to small, although I hear they're not that hard to kill.
Flintknapper
Member
No question, rifle weight...stock design, recoil pad, etc... all have an effect on felt recoil. This is true of any caliber/cartridge combination.
All things being equal however, the 7mm-08 is going to be more pleasant to shoot than a .270 and will provide ballistics approaching the latter.
As for bear (black bear), they are not difficult to kill with a well placed shot.
Even the normal 140 gr. fodder of good construction is enough, but bullets up to 165 grs. are available.
IMO, the 7mm-08 is just an excellent round for all thin skinned game under 800 lbs. with proper bullet selection and placement.
All things being equal however, the 7mm-08 is going to be more pleasant to shoot than a .270 and will provide ballistics approaching the latter.
As for bear (black bear), they are not difficult to kill with a well placed shot.
Even the normal 140 gr. fodder of good construction is enough, but bullets up to 165 grs. are available.
IMO, the 7mm-08 is just an excellent round for all thin skinned game under 800 lbs. with proper bullet selection and placement.
birdbustr
Member
Flint,
I was trying to show a little more concrete comparison. I do agree that there is a lot of difference between felt/calculated recoil. Felt recoil is too dependent on many factors (recoil pad, rifle weight, bullet weight, powder, how well the rifle fits the shooter, etc). It would be wrong to stereotype all
7mm-08 rifles feel one way. Either way I think we both are fans of a 7mm-08 and prefer it to the 270.
I do admit that the comparison of calculated recoil between the 270 and 7mm-08 suprised me a bit. I tried to compare everything as equal as could be possible. I hope it helped.
I was trying to show a little more concrete comparison. I do agree that there is a lot of difference between felt/calculated recoil. Felt recoil is too dependent on many factors (recoil pad, rifle weight, bullet weight, powder, how well the rifle fits the shooter, etc). It would be wrong to stereotype all
7mm-08 rifles feel one way. Either way I think we both are fans of a 7mm-08 and prefer it to the 270.
I do admit that the comparison of calculated recoil between the 270 and 7mm-08 suprised me a bit. I tried to compare everything as equal as could be possible. I hope it helped.
brl150
Member
Maybe the first thing to do would be install a slip on pad, just to see what that does. If that works, you could move to fixed one. Then, if the recoil is still too much, switch to new caliber. Then you have a slip on pad that could even reduce that.
I have a .243 NEF single shot that recoils (felt wise) a lot harder than my Browning BLR in 7mm-08. That Browning fits just right and I hardly notice recoil. With the slip on recoil pad, it's even less. Although, the slip on does change the position of the rifle. Not an issue of someone my size.
I have a .243 NEF single shot that recoils (felt wise) a lot harder than my Browning BLR in 7mm-08. That Browning fits just right and I hardly notice recoil. With the slip on recoil pad, it's even less. Although, the slip on does change the position of the rifle. Not an issue of someone my size.
Shawnee
member
One vote for the 7mm/08 here.
I have a .270 (Sendero), .25-06 (#1), and a 7mm-08 (LSS Mountain Rifle). I like them all for deer hunting and I don't think there is a deer that walks who would "notice" the difference. Honestly, I can not say that I feel more or less recoil from either the 25-06 or 7mm-08. They seem to have about the same "push". However, I have shot a couple Model 7's in 7mm-08 that appeared to have more kick than either of mine. The shorter stock must have a lot to do with it. With all of that said, for a first timer, go with the 7mm-08 and don't look back!
moojpg2
Member
My first rifle was a Rem. Mod. Seven in 7mm-08
my first real rifle was a Remington Model 7 Youth Model in 7mm-08. My dad bought it for me when I was about 10. The youth model is a really short/light gun, I still have it and use it more than anything else i have, and I'm 19. ( youth model is the perfect rifle to carry around in the woods, accurate and light) and it has a sharp kick to it for a 7mm-08, but in any other rifle it'd be really mild. I shot it fine when I was 10 though, as long I as I didn't shoot too much in one day. keep in mind though, my dad kept me fed with 140gr sierra game king hand loads that were pretty damn hot. With some 120gr, or 130gr loads it would be much better. I was able to move up in caliber really quickly though after I got used to that rifle, started shooting the .300 win mag when i was 13 and never looked back. 7mm-08 is definitely the way to go for a kids gun though, also the perfect deer/black bear cartridge. Light recoil, fairly flat shooting, and inherently accurate.
my first real rifle was a Remington Model 7 Youth Model in 7mm-08. My dad bought it for me when I was about 10. The youth model is a really short/light gun, I still have it and use it more than anything else i have, and I'm 19. ( youth model is the perfect rifle to carry around in the woods, accurate and light) and it has a sharp kick to it for a 7mm-08, but in any other rifle it'd be really mild. I shot it fine when I was 10 though, as long I as I didn't shoot too much in one day. keep in mind though, my dad kept me fed with 140gr sierra game king hand loads that were pretty damn hot. With some 120gr, or 130gr loads it would be much better. I was able to move up in caliber really quickly though after I got used to that rifle, started shooting the .300 win mag when i was 13 and never looked back. 7mm-08 is definitely the way to go for a kids gun though, also the perfect deer/black bear cartridge. Light recoil, fairly flat shooting, and inherently accurate.
Schleprok62
Member
7mm-08... I have one, and am not a huge fan of recoil... It's a great rifle...
another vote for the 7-08.just something to think about...
the t/c encore is a great rifle and for around $225.00 you can just swap out the barrels.my 7-08 t/c and it is a tack driver.so far I have picked up barrels in 223,7-08,7.5x55 swiss and 375 with these I can just about hunt anything I want to go after.
pete
the t/c encore is a great rifle and for around $225.00 you can just swap out the barrels.my 7-08 t/c and it is a tack driver
.so far I have picked up barrels in 223,7-08,7.5x55 swiss and 375 with these I can just about hunt anything I want to go after.pete
oklahoma caveman
Member
my main go to deer rifle is a 7mm08 in thr remington 700. great gun low recoil. started huntin with it at 8 an i was a small kid. maybe 100lb. iv loved it since day 1
35Rem
Member
Have a good recoild pad installed (Limbsaver)
Use Managed Recoil Ammo from remington, that will make a huge difference. No need for a different gun.
Use Managed Recoil Ammo from remington, that will make a huge difference. No need for a different gun.
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