"870 Magnum" Details (not again...)

[HMMurdock]

Alright, alright. I know this has been beaten to death. If someone can post me a link to one of the posts I'll be on my way, but I can't find it.

The differences between some of the Remington 870 12-gauges? More specifically, one marked "870 Magnum". Not Express, not Police, not Wingmaster... just "870 Magnum". I have an opportunity to purchase one for a good price, but I'm curious how it compares to the lower end "870 Express" models or the higher end "870 Police" models. I'm told it has a parkerized finish and comes with the standard bead sight and wood stock set. Anyone know what the heck I'm talking about?

Again, sorry for the repost!

 

[WinchesterAA]

I've never heard of it, but I would assume it comes with a barrel that gleefully accepts 3" loads and bares significant resemblance to all the other 870s =)




Really though - google told me this -

Technically, there IS no "870 Magnum" model Remington.

Remington makes the Wingmaster, the Express, and the Police models.
For the last 15 to 20 years virtually ALL Remington 870's are Magnum guns, so we have the Wingmaster Magnum, the Express Magnum, and the Police Magnum models.

This means that currently ALL Express, and Police guns are Magnums, which means that they will shoot the 3" Magnum shells, in addition to the standard 2 3/4" shells.

There are differences between the Express and Police models, but in your friends case, this is of little importance.

All Remington 870's in 12 gauge use the same stock design, and they all interchange. So, you friend can pick up any synthetic stock set that's made for a Remington 870, and it will fit perfectly.

He will need a special wrench to change out the forearm. There's a round nut inside the front of the forearm that has to be unscrewed, and this requires a special "spanner" tool to unscrew it.
You can make one fairly easily.

You can find used synthetic stock sets by advertising on gun forum "For Sale" areas, or by looking on Ebay.

The 20" barrel is not standard on the Express models. Usually they are either longer sporting length, or 18" inch defense length.
You might tell him to measure the barrel properly to be sure what he has.
To do this, CLOSE THE ACTION, then put a rod or dowel done the bore, mark it at the muzzle, then measure the rod to find the true length.

Also, I dunno why nobody thought of this before they started selling the special tool, but in the rear of the 870 there's a strange gloop gloop(tm) looking washer that fits snugly between original wooden stock and reciever. Works perfectly as forend wrench.



wee, real pictures of the thing instead of silly cartoons. --- to achieve this = 23 seconds of time (my philly is a bit fat so I had to wiggle it down in those recoil pad holes a bit, which slowed me down some)

 

[pdowg881]

Yup the magnum marking just means that the gun can fire 3" shells in addition to 2 3/4. Like on the receiver of my express it says express magnum.

 

[dfariswheel]

Back before Remington introduced the "budget" Express model, they only made the Wingmaster, and a dull finish Wingmaster for police use.

After they introduced the 3" chambering, they started stamping Magnum guns as such.
Since there was really only the one gun, Magnum models were simply stamped "870 Magnum" to identify Magnum models over the standard 2 3/4" models.

 

[boomstik45]

Okay, so the OD green 20" barrel, 7+1 capacity "Tactical" models are nothing more than glorified Remingon 870 express models? I'm kinda disappointed. I was sort of warming up to the idea that they were more like Police models. Well, so much for that idea.

As far as I understand, the Police model has a tougher receiver and components. Is the Express model inferior, or is it also a tough specimen? I just want to know, because if the Tactical models are built on the Express models, then this is not a good gun for heavy duty work....right? Or wrong?

Maybe I shoulda got a Mossberg 590.....

 

[pdowg881]

The express has some parts that are plastic. i think the trigger group for one. Overall though, it's extremely durable and IMO the only real difference is cosmetic. (Finish/furniture)

 

[Dave McCracken]

Plastic-Schmastic. WIll anyone that ever had a part break on an 870 please say so?

Any part, made of any material.

My contribution, 2 firing pin springs. Period.

 

[Nameless_Hobo]

I though Magnums were the ones which took 3.5 inch shells? I believe my father's 3.5 inch is market "magnum."

 

[Regolith]

Nameless - that's the "Super Magnum"

 

[boomstik45]

Mr. McCraken,

Then it's more than good enough for me. Thanks.

 

[dfariswheel]

The Express has the same forged and milled receiver as the Wingmaster and Police models.

Once again, here's the differences between the 870 models:

Differences between the Express, Wingmaster, and Police

The Express is Remington's "budget" gun, made to compete with the cheaper to make Winchester and Mossberg guns.

The Wingmaster is Remington’s "Cadillac" top-of-the-line sporting gun.

The Police is a Wingmaster with a dull finish and is a much more carefully inspected and built gun.

The new "Tactical" and Marine Magnum guns are based on the Express.

How Remington lowered the Express price was to reduce hand labor to a bare minimum, and to eliminate much of the polishing and de-burring the better quality Wingmaster and Police guns get.

The Express is basically the same forged and milled steel receiver and heavy-duty internals gun the better 870's are, just in a rougher, less well finished form with plastic and MIM parts.

The Express Model has:
A plastic trigger group.
The dimples in the mag tube and the new style plastic magazine retention system, EXCEPT on the extended magazine versions, which do NOT have the dimples.
A rougher finish inside and outside, with machine marks and some burrs left.
A rougher, bead blasted blue job.
A less polished bore.
A two piece sleeved barrel. (not 100% sure about this)
Hardwood or synthetic stock, with a sporting-length fore end and pressed-in checkering.
The Defense version has 18", Cylinder bore barrel, with a bead sight.
The Marine Magnum and Tactical models have plated or polymer finishes.
Some Metal Injection Molded (MIM) parts, like the extractor.

The Wingmaster has:
An aluminum trigger group.
The old style magazine retention system.
A much smoother finish inside and out, no machine marks or burrs.
The Wingmaster gun receives a higher level of inspection and finishing.
A fine, commercial polished blue finish.
A polished bore.
A chrome plated bolt.
A one piece barrel.
Walnut stocks with the famous "Bowling Pin" finish in gloss or satin. and better checkering.
Wide choices in barrel lengths and choke options.
No use of MIM parts, the extractor is milled.
The Wingmaster is the full top-of-the-line commercial Remington pump gun, and is priced accordingly.

The 870 Police has:
An aluminum trigger group.
The old style magazine retention system.
A much smoother finish inside and out, no machine marks or burrs.
The Police gun receives a higher level of inspection and finishing and is built in a special area of the plant from 100% inspected parts.
A military-grade parkerized finish.
A polished bore.
A one piece barrel.
Walnut or synthetic stock, with a short police-length fore end.
The Remington “R3” super recoil pad that reduces felt recoil by 30%.
Choices in different stocks, including Speed-feed, and others.
18" to 20" improved cylinder barrel, with a wide choice in sights, including rifle, ghost ring, and luminous.
Police options like magazine extenders, forearms with built-in lights, and sling swivels.
Heavy-duty magazine spring.
Heavy-duty trigger-sear spring.
Heavy-duty shell lifter spring.
Sling swivel mounts.
No use of MIM parts, the extractor is milled.

The Express is a "bottom of the line" budget gun, the Wingmaster is a "top of the line" sporting gun, the Police is the top-of-the-line in defense guns.
The 870's are generally considered to be the finest quality pump gun made.

 

[boomstik45]

Thanks, Dfariswheel, for the info. Is it possible that the "Tactical" models have some differences that are not present on the express models? I notice that the trigger guard is plastic, but havent' looked to see if the actual trigger group is or not. Also, it would seem that the 20" barrel is actually a one-piece. And the finish is OD green and looks pretty good. Not blued, parkerized I guess. Of course, it has the full buttstock with pistol grip and R3 recoil pad. I paid $450 it brand new. Too much, or right on par? Either way, it's not a police model, although Remington seems to be advertising them like police models. Either way, it's an 870, which means it's a good gun. I won't be running 1,000 rds a week or even a month through it, so I'm not worried.

 

[Big Az Al]

simply stated

The express is a shotgun where after;

All maching is done and it is now workable;

The final FINE FITTING AND FINISH STEPS ARE BYPASSED!

The barrel comes out of the boring process:

For a express: send it to get a rib and lug soldered on, coarse blast the outside, stamp the markings into it and blue..

For a wingmaster, there is a polish step, the soldering step another polish step, the barrel stamping, an inspection, more polish if needed, the blueing, insepction, redo if needed, and finally, send to assembly room.

Looking at the above two descriptions, the Express, even using more defined explanations I barely used half the words as for the Wingmaster, lots of hands bypassed to make the lowergrade barrel, isn't there?

 

[Big Az Al]

Tactical 870

Better finish then exspress, not as good as wingmaster.

Different finish.

Different markings.

More work for REM = more for the comsumer.

If they sell at MSRP, and they are not shelf queens, the price is right.

If it was cheap enough that the exspress was being dressed up and sold customized, to the equal of the TACTICAL and cheaper, the factory offerring would be a shelf queen.

 

[HMMurdock]

So "870 Magnum" is an early 3"? Cool, but where does the quality (finish, deburring) fall in line compared to, say, the Express?

 

[Dave McCracken]

Better.....

 

[dfariswheel]

To be clear, the plastic Remington trigger group is the actual trigger guard ONLY. ALL internal parts are the same steel as used in the other models.
From all indications, the plastic trigger group is just as strong and durable as the compressed powdered aluminum group as used on the Wingmaster and Police model.
(People who discount and sneer at the plastic trigger group suddenly aren't too sure when they learn the "better" aluminum group is actually made from compressed powdered aluminum).

The plastic group does have some advantages.
There is no finish to wear off and look ratty.
The plastic trigger guard bow will flex and return to shape if bumped, where the aluminum version will bend or even break.
It's self lubricating.

While I'm NOT 100% sure, I "think" the Express uses a sleeved, two piece barrel.
The actual barrel is brazed into the rear section that includes the extension and locking lug area.
This is a pure money saver for Remington.
The reason I think the Express is a two piece barrel is because I can often see what appears to be a seam just in front of the chamber area.

The Express really is pretty much the same gun as the Wingmaster and the Police, where for a few exceptions, the major difference is cosmetic.
Simply, the Express is not polished and de-burred as well as the more expensive guns.
Everything possible is done to eliminate the expensive hand work that makes the other guns so expensive.
The Express will last just as long as the other guns, and that's somewhere in the neighborhood of at least 250,000 rounds.

What you get with the other two, is a fully polished top-of-the-line sporting gun in the Wingmaster, and a totally inspected, de-burred and quality assured gun the Police can depend on 100% in the Police model.
Both guns will have a smoother action right out of the box, where the Express will be a little rough, but will smooth out with use.

 

[boomstik45]

Thanks again, Dfariswheel. I'm satisfied with the explanation. It's just tough getting detailed answers when there's so many yahoos that act like they know what they're talking about, but are full of it. Most guys figure the plastic trigger group means that whole part of the gun is plastic. No, really....

 

[Regolith]

Normally, I prefer metal trigger guards, but the plastic one on my Express is made of some pretty high quality plastic, and doesn't feel flimsy at all. In fact, it feels stronger than most types of plastic I've handled. I don't really feel uncomfortable with it at all, especially since I don't plan on it being a display or presentation piece, but rather a workhorse.