9mm- 115gr vs 124gr?

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milemaker13

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Whats the difference between the two (besides 9 grains of course!)? Both are winchester fmj. The 124s are " loaded to mil specs 10-15% hotter than standard".

For use in Kahr CW9 and CZ P-09. Does one have an advantage over the other?
 
Well, if it works as advertised the 124gr is just heavier and will probably be a bit faster than the 115gr. Point of impact may change appropriately. Pressure will be higher.
Not something I'd worry about in most respectable arms, but I'd avoid shooting it in anything already worn out or Jimenez.
 
I load the 115 gr bullets exclusively - after trying both 124 and 147 varieties - since this is the cartridge's historical loading.
 
I load the 115 gr bullets exclusively - after trying both 124 and 147 varieties - since this is the cartridge's historical loading.

Since I carried Federal 9BPLE 115 +P+ as my duty load for many years. that's what I hand load to duplicate. (Using cheaper plated bullets, of course) 1350 FPS.

I carry 147 HST in my little Ruger LC9 Pro, so I load 147 plated to duplicate those loads for practice with that weapon.

If I were limited to FMJ, I would carry 124 NATO loads since those are available worldwide.

Any of them will work if you put them in the right place.
 
When I carried a 9mm, I usually carried it with 124 gr +P JHPs, typically Win PDX or Speer Gold Dot.

The FMJ stuff is best reserved for practice. The 124 gr fodder, esp if it is mil, or NATO, spec, will be a little hotter. If you're esp recoil sensitive, this may be an issue. But for the most part, the hotter ammo will run better in most guns. Some guns tend to not like the lighter stuff and can become finicky or sensitive to things like limp wristing. Not huge difference, but if we are nitpicking, I would stick with 124 gr.
 
So since this is a generic 9mm bullet thread, could I ask those of you in the know as to when a heavy 9mm bullet is preferable to a lighter one? I'm wanting to experiment with my Ruger Blackhawk conversion cylinder and was going to start a thread on this, but if the OP doesn't mind me piggybacking a question, I appreciate it. I'm obviously not worried about feeding issues nor am I worried about stressing the Ruger. I had never fired a 147gr 9mm before until I shot some through the BH. It was cheap Russian 147 jhp in a steel case, but it seemed accurate, didn't make much noise, and felt like a cap gun going off compared to a .357 out of that 3lb piece of steel.

So what would be the best 9mm grain/bullet type out of a 5.5" barrel for, say, woods/cabin defense? I usually keep the .357 cylinder in for such tasks. However, the "woods" I am referring to is mostly residential properties, not bear country. Is there any boutique 9mm that would feed in such a gun that would be preferable over shooting out of a full size auto loader? Just curious.
 
I shoot a lot of 115 gr FMJ because it is cheap. For serious work I've traditionally used 124 gr HP loads at 1200-1250 fps. I don't think the brand matters much, but that load has proven to be quite effective. Bullets are designed to expand within a fairly narrow impact velocity range. Some 115 gr HP bullets have a reputation for over expansion and limited penetration. But not all, it really depends on the bullet design, bullet selection at 115 gr is more critical.

The FBI now says that a 147 gr bullet at about 1000 fps is the better all around choice. I still think the jury is still out as to whether or not it is really any better than the 124 gr load at 1200+. Early 147 gr bullets did not expand reliably at 1000 fps, but supposedly the problems have been solved. But I'd use either the better 124 gr or 147 gr bullets. I don't think either is a bad choice. From where I'm sitting penetration trumps expansion, and I'm leery of the 115's.

So what would be the best 9mm grain/bullet type out of a 5.5" barrel for, say, woods/cabin defense? I

For 2 legged predators the same as above. For 4 legged predators this:

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=388

Scroll down for why.
 
I've studied gel test results for short barrels. It makes no sense to me, but for some inexplicable reason the Federal HST 147 seems to both penetrate and expand better from short barrels than the lighter bullets.:what::what:

I still like the 115 +P+ 9BPLE for 4 inch or longer barrels. It might not be the most "modern" but it has a heck of a lot of "street cred" with LE.:thumbup::thumbup:
 
So since this is a generic 9mm bullet thread, could I ask those of you in the know as to when a heavy 9mm bullet is preferable to a lighter one? I'm wanting to experiment with my Ruger Blackhawk conversion cylinder and was going to start a thread on this, but if the OP doesn't mind me piggybacking a question, I appreciate it. I'm obviously not worried about feeding issues nor am I worried about stressing the Ruger. I had never fired a 147gr 9mm before until I shot some through the BH. It was cheap Russian 147 jhp in a steel case, but it seemed accurate, didn't make much noise, and felt like a cap gun going off compared to a .357 out of that 3lb piece of steel.

So what would be the best 9mm grain/bullet type out of a 5.5" barrel for, say, woods/cabin defense? I usually keep the .357 cylinder in for such tasks. However, the "woods" I am referring to is mostly residential properties, not bear country. Is there any boutique 9mm that would feed in such a gun that would be preferable over shooting out of a full size auto loader? Just curious.

Bullets expand or deform in relation to their velocity. Given two bullets of similar construction, we usually expect the one driven the fastest to exhibit the most expansion. Penetration and expansion are both important to terminal ballistics, mostly in understanding their relationship. First, we need adequate penetration. The bullet has to penetrate enough to make it to the larger cardiovascular structures located typically pretty deep in the torso. Secondly, if we can get it, some expansion is nice, because it creates a bigger hole, and helps make use of that energy. But expansion occurs at the expense of penetration. As a bullet expands, the larger surface area slows it down. So it is important for us to find the proper balance of penetration and expansion.

So lighter bullets typically have a higher velocity, which means they expand more and penetrate less than a similarly constructed heavier bullet at slower speed. If you were looking to defend yourself against a 4-legged predator, I would definitely opt for as much penetration as I could get, probably a 147 gr FMJ. For 2-legged miscreants it doesn't matter quite as much, but would probably still opt for a 124 or 147 gr JHP. For sure, I think the .357's ability to handle heavier 158 and 180 gr loads gives it the edge for cabin or camp defense against the 9mm.
 
I load the 115 gr bullets exclusively - after trying both 124 and 147 varieties - since this is the cartridge's historical loading.
For the trivia lover, I believe the round originated with a 124gr bullet. The 115gr bullet was a later addition and the 147gr bullet later still.
 
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I like the 124's over the 115's, and that's what I buy if the price is comparable.

115's shoot OK in my Kahr CW9's (I have 3...) but it likes the 124's better (factory ammos.) I'm fixing to handload some 147grn plated bullets to see if it might like them better, it didn't really care for the 147grn Gold Dots I had for a while, but those are not FMJ's. It really likes the 135grn Hornadys, however.

Don't know nothing about the CZ...
 
I hand load all my 9mm and prefer 147's but I don't pass up a bargain on 124 grain bullets. Nothing wrong with 115's, I just prefer the feel of the heavier bullets in both target and full power loads.
 
I hand load all my 9mm and prefer 147's but I don't pass up a bargain on 124 grain bullets. Nothing wrong with 115's, I just prefer the feel of the heavier bullets in both target and full power loads.

I also load my own and like 147s the best. Particularly I enjoy Rocky Mountain Reloading bullets.

Always carry 147 HST, like how they shoot in all my 9mms and in gel they seem to be pretty good.
 
As originally designed by and loaded for Georg Luger by DWM (Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken) the round was an 8 gram (123.5 gr) lead-core bullet. This is the round the German Army originally used, but due to the lead shortage during the war, they developed two additional loads that utilized iron cores.

One type was called "PistolenPatrone 08 mit Sintereisenkern" (with sintered (pressed) iron core). Which weighed 5.8 grams (89.5 gr.) and had markings on the box which said: "Pistolenpatronen 08 S.E."

The other was called "Pistolenpatrone 08 mit Eisenkern" (iron core). That load weighed 6.4 grams (98.7 gr.) and the boxes were marked "Pistolenpatronen 08 m.E.".

Just a note - it wan't called 9mm Luger or 9mm Parabellum, it was called PistolenPatrone 08.
 
Whats the difference between the two (besides 9 grains of course!)? Both are winchester fmj. The 124s are " loaded to mil specs 10-15% hotter than standard".

For use in Kahr CW9 and CZ P-09. Does one have an advantage over the other?
Price

I begrudgingly switched to 9mm for cheaper ammo so why pay .40S&W prices for 9mm? The only cheap 9mm I find is 115gr so that’s what I shoot, both FMJ and JHP.
 
Price

........ 9mm for cheaper ammo so why pay .40S&W prices for 9mm? The only cheap 9mm I find is 115gr so that’s what I shoot, both FMJ and JHP.

I wholeheartedly agree. However I came to realize the 124g Winchester NATO is actually the same price i pay for WWB 115g at sprawlmart.
115 = $20/100rds
124 = $30/150rds

Also the 124 nato isnt bulk packed like the 115. Comes in the 50 rd foam trays.

Thats 20c per round. Whats it costing you guys to reload 9mm?
 
If you have a new gun, sometimes the lighter 115 grain will not cycle well initially because of a stiff recoil spring, especially in small guns. The 124 NATO will work better for break in if this happens.
 
When I can find 124 gr Blazer Brass I always buy some. When Cabelas has a sale on 115 gr Fiocchi or Fed American Eagle in any grain weight, I always get some. Win NATO 124 gr works fine, I’ll buy that on sale but I avoid regular 115 gr WWB.

Wally’s Fed Champion aluminum or brass case 115 gr is decent ammo at a great price that hits the targets fine, but it works better in my Glocks than with most of my other guns.
 
In most guns there is little or no difference, although every gun is different, and if your gun has fixed sights, then it is worth trying different weights or manufacturers until you find something it likes.

I have found that 9mm automatics with sharply slanted grips, like the Luger or the Benelli B-76 seem to feed 124 grain rounds more reliably. The exception to that was a Fiocchi 115 grain Truncated Cone FMJ that was, as I understand it, very much like the original German Army bullet in shape.
 
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