9mm carbine vs. pistol FPS

[stressed]

Well a friend of mine who is a gunsmith fired my 16" sterling sporter SMG through a chrono with some walmart PPU 115gr FMJ I gave him. Results? Glock 19 Average: 1000 FPS, Sterling SMG Average: 1230 FPS.

That's a 230 FPS difference from 115 FMJ. That exceeds many +P loadings of the same weight, in standard pressure form.

I have a list of cartridges to fire through both weapons, to see the different velocities, and to use ballistic gelatin ion the next test to compare penetration from the two. I know a +P+ 147 grain can penetrate less then a standard pressure 147 grain due to violent expansion, however from the longer barrel I'm curious if the pedals would just be pushed back on the bonded pulled and penetrate deeper.

If you have any cartridges you would like to see tested in this scenario, let me know.

So far I have these to test: Chrono through SMG and pistol, into gel.

Hornady Critical Defense 115gr
Hornady Critical Duty +P 130gr
Atomic Ammo +P 124gr
Barnes TAC-XP +P 115gr
Buffalo Bore +P+ 95gr BSCHP
Buffalo Bore +P+ 124gr "Penetrator" FMJ-FN
Buffalo Bore 147gr Subsonic
Underwood +P+ 147gr
Gold Dot 147gr
Gold Dot +P 124gr Short Barrel
Hertzingers Nylon Jacket 115gr TNJ
Remington Ultimate Defense (Golden Sabre) 124gr
Liberty +P 50gr
SBR 147gr Tracer FMJ
SBR 158gr Tracer FMJ
SBR +P 158gr FMJ
PPU 115gr FMJ
Fiocchi non-jacketed 115gr lead

 

[bigfatdave]

I'm interested in your results, it looks like you have a good selection of ammo to test out.

Velocity testing has been done, with real-world guns and fixed test barrels - Don't know about gel testing.

Might save a few bucks if you're just firing enough to confirm BBTI info for velocity:
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html

 

[wally]

It'd be really interesting to add in another Glock 19 to get an idea of the velocity variations between two guns of the same make and model.

The polygonal rifling of the G19 is supposed to increase velocity so the difference between short and long barrels in this test might be a bit reduced.

 

[grimjaw]

I can save you the trouble of clocking the Fiocchi, and I've done Golden Saber 124gr +P. I can't afford the bullet jello, though.

http://grimjaw.net/ballistics.htm

Three results: 3.5", 4 5/8", and 16.25" barrels. There are a few others as well.

 

[stressed]

Grimjaw, thanks for the link I'll take a look at your site.

I also have a Glock 34 with the longer barrel then the Glock 17 I could throw into the test as well. Waiting on conversion barrel to convert PPS-43 from 7.62x25mm to 9x19mm, same as Nazi captures MP43r. This barrel should be match grade with rifle twist, 10" length.

Got some more interesting ammo to add in test.

CORBON +P 100gr Pow'rBall
Double Tap 165gr Equalizer
Grizzly +P 85gr

I would also like to get some surplus labeled "SMG Only" as I have seen before, to see velocity differences and penetration differences.

 

[bikerdoc]

Cool!

 

[stressed]

Results

Fired these across the chronograph. Some rounds only 2 where fired from each as the rest are saved for gelatin. Distance was 5 feet from chronograph.

Barnes TAC-XPD +P 115gr SCHP

G19:

1054
1056
1049
1074
1070
1054
AVG 1049

Sterling SMG:

1248
1259
1195
1250
1257
1234
1183
AVG 1232

Rather pathetic for +P 115gr IMO. Standard pressure 124gr eclipsed this. Poor load IMO.

Cor-Bon Powerball +P 100gr

G19:

1304
1249

Sterling SMG:

1518
1478

Remington Golden Sabre JHP 124gr

G19:

1116
1119

Sterling SMG:

1328
1341

Hornady Critical Defense 115gr

G19:

1130
1166

Sterling SMG:

1361
1355

Hornady Critical Duty +P 135gr

G19:

1044
1055

Sterling SMG:

1186
1170

Atomic +P 124gr JHP

G19:

1182
1170
1154
1163
AVG 1167

Sterling SMG:

1499
1488
1468
1494
AVG 1487

AVG 320 FPS increase in SMG

Liberty Defense 50gr HP

G19:

2017
1993
2005
1972
1955
AVG 1988

Sterling SMG:

2510
2515
2501
2506
2446
AVG 2495

AVG 507 FPS increase in SMG!

Double Tap 165gr "Equalizer" (Dual projectile)

G19:

824

Sterling SMG:

980

(Remains subsonic)

Double Tap +P 115gr

G19:

1277
1352

Sterling SMG:

1670
1662

365 FPS AVG increase in SMG

Speer Gold-Dot +P 124gr Short Barrel HP

G19:

1199
1199

Sterling SMG:

1479
1473

Speer Gold-Dot 147gr

G19:

959
929

Sterling SMG:

1151
1143

Underwood +P+ 147gr BJHP

G19:

1114
1112
1108
1117
1125
AVG 1115

Sterling SMG:

1280
1320
1293
1289
1291
AVG 1294

Buffalo Bore +P+ 124gr FN-FMJ (Penetrator)

G19:

1282
1262

Sterling SMG:

1523
1473

Buffalo Bore +P+ 95gr SCHP (Barnes)

G19:

1459
1413

Sterling SMG:

1740
1742

331 AVG FPS gained in SMG

Grizzly +P 90gr JHP

G19:

1466
1483

Sterling SMG:

1831
1823

AVG 355 FPS gained in SMG

Hertzinger/CCI 115gr TNJ

G19:

1148
1154
1143
1146
1163
AVG 1150

Sterling SMG:

1443
1452
1447
1441
1435
AVG 1443

Average 293 FPS increase in SMG

Federal 115gr FMJ

G19:

1107
1099

Sterling SMG:

1334
1336
1307

Basically, what this shows is that the lighter the bullet is, the more velocity it will gain from a longer barrel. The longer barrel will in effect give standard loads pistol +P+ and above velocities.

 

[evan price]

That's about right. A 20% increase in velocity for a carbine-length barrel as opposed to a 4" pistol barrel is pretty standard. My KelTec Sub-2000 manual lists a chart with about the same results in it. You can get 357 revolver velocity from a 9mm with a carbine barrel.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Post #1
Walmart PPU 115gr FMJ ammunition
Glock 19 Average: 1000 FPS,
Sterling 16" carbine Average: 1230 FPS.

Running that through my ft-lbs calculator:
115 gr @ 1000 fps = 255 ft/lbs kinetic energy (aka punch).
115 gr @ 1230 fps = 386 ft/lbs kinetic energy (aka punch).

23% more velocity = 51% more impact energy.
I won't sneeze at a gain like that.

e = m v[sup]2[/sup]

That velocity squared really affects impact! I had .357 rounds that splattered on my iron swinging target from my revolver, but the first (and last) three rounds from my 20" carbine cratered the face and left dents on the opposite side. No more shooting the swinger with the carbine.

 

[stressed]

Post #1
Walmart PPU 115gr FMJ ammunition
Glock 19 Average: 1000 FPS,
Sterling 16" carbine Average: 1230 FPS.

Running that through my ft-lbs calculator:
115 gr @ 1000 fps = 255 ft/lbs kinetic energy (aka punch).
115 gr @ 1230 fps = 386 ft/lbs kinetic energy (aka punch).

23% more velocity = 51% more impact energy.
I won't sneeze at a gain like that.

e = m v[sup]2[/sup]

That velocity squared really affects impact! I had .357 rounds that splattered on my iron swinging target from my revolver, but the first (and last) three rounds from my 20" carbine cratered the face and left dents on the opposite side. No more shooting the swinger with the carbine.

Evan Price, .357 mag velocity without the noise, and pretty much no recoil.

Carl Brown, The Liberty Defense +P 50gr produced over 700 ft lbs, the Double Tap +P 115gr JHP produced 712ftlbs with many of the loads in the 600ftlb range out of the SMG.

 

[stressed]

Does anyone have a formula for finding out what ballpark velocities a 9.5" barrel will yield based off the velocity numbers from the 16" and 4" barrels?

 

[Rock185]

stresed, I've chronographed a fair amount of standard 9MM, NATO, +P and +P+ through revolvers, pistols of different barrel lengths and Marlin 16.25" carbines. The velocity increases you've recorded are consistent with what I've seen. I don't have a formula, but 35-50 fps per inch estimates have been reported for as long as I can remember. I have learned that these estimates might, or might not,even be in the ball park, so I never try to predict. Thanks for posting your results.

 

[stressed]

Updates:

Winchester PDX-1 124gr +P

G19:

1141
1202

SMG:

1429
1388

147gr FN-FMJ SUB Magtech

G19:

952
976
984
946

SMG:

1085
1101
1102
1113

Remains subsonic

Wolf 115gr Bi-Metal Jacket FMJ

G19:

1170
1182
1143
1165
1147

G34:

1240
1218
1206
1240
1217

SMG:

1360
1329
1360
1334
1360

 

[ugaarguy]

Good Job

Thanks for doing this and sharing your results.

 

[556by45guy]

Speer GD 124gr non+P does 1145fps av from my G19. I chronied it last winter so one might get a few fps more during warmer weather. ETA: I believe Speer rates it at 1150fps.

 

[Nordeste]

I have a Destroyer 9 mm carbine. One day I run through a buddy's CED M2 chronograph a few Fiocchi NATO 9 mm (pretty hot, by the way) 124 grain cartridges and got 1364.8 ft/sec. The same ammo gave 1131 ft/sec out of my Star 30M, a few more out of a service Beretta 92FS, 1145 IIRC.

The Destroyer has a 21.4" barrel. I was also surprised by how much extra velocity the longer barrel provided. Didn't expect that much. Perhaps with slower burning powders this increase would be even bigger.

 

[jmr40]

Just for some more numbers to compare, and to look at other chamberings check out this site.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html

 

[stressed]

I have run the Winchester 124gr NATO ball as well with similar results if I remember correctly, possibly in the 1400 range cannot remember. I was going to post the data here along with a few other loads when I get the booklet with the recorded data from my gunsmith buddy. His GF seemed to have misplaced it.

 

[stressed]

Sucks that I cannot edit any of this info. Will eventually start a new thread that will cover every premium defense 9mm load available including any and all exotic loads. (Yes, even the new gimmick RIP load) You will know what to expect out of you 16" barreled carbine, and your Glock 19 if you plan on purchasing any of this ammunition.

In addition to the tested firearms, I'm adding a Luger P08 - as it has a 4" rifled barrel, to offset the higher velocity of the Glock 19's 4" polygonal rifled barrel which will of course, gain an average of 50 FPS or so as data below describes. This covers all rifled and polygonal pistol holders. (+P ammo and above will not be fired through Luger)

An MP40 will also be used to utilize it's 9.8" barrel. +P and +P+ will be fired through MP40

Glock 34 will continue to be used.

Temp -2 below 0.

Herters (CCI) TNJ 115 ball

G19:

1101
1113
1113
1088
1117
1110
1135

P08 Luger:

1060
1101
1077
1065
1084
1066
1076

And for the carbine/pistol FPS tests in further.. The top loads are slated for flesh tests during culling of pig to be processed/butchered as sausage. We know what they do via chrono out of different barrels, now what do they do to flesh from different barrels. i.e. expansion, penetration.

 

[mastiffhound]

I'd really like to see what the Herters (CCI) TNJ 115 ball does. Without the metal jacket I wonder what kind of deformation you'd get? I recently picked some up and wonder how they would do for my back-up to my rifle for my pig culling duties on our land. I'll be watching this thread for sure. I also picked up a new chronograph but it's been too cold to get it out. Thanks for the info, I really liked the pistol to smg velocity comparisons.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Thanks for posting this. Now that I have a TNW Suomi, it's of particular interest to me.

 

[snapshot762]

I'm curious how plain old Winchester White Box performs.

 

[xtphreak]

Federal 115gr 9BP
They call it Classic now
I've been shooting it in my HiPowers for, oh 30 years?
Damn that seems like a long time

I shoot it in my Camp9 and SIG 938 also

 

[stressed]

Some new additions gentlemen.

LeHigh Defense Maximum Expansion 105gr

Sterling SMG

1418
1443
1435

G19

1278
1287
1285

P08 Luger

1188
1203
1202

105gr Federal Guard Dog EFMJ

Sterling SMG

1436
1444
1450

G19

1205
1300
1241

P08 Luger

1186
1189
1182

PPU 158gr FMJ

Sterling SMG

995
1001
1011
1017
1020

G19

933
918
984

P08 Luger

874
864
818

Fiocchi 92gr EMB

Sterling SMG

1694
1681
1664

G19

1334
1302

P08 Luger (Same velocity as WWII Wehrmacht 92gr Sintered Iron FMJ)

1271
1262

Double Tap 147gr FN-FMJ +P

Sterling SMG

1342
1342

G19

1187
1204