9mm Gold Dot with Red Dot?

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Deus Machina

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Been out of handloading for a while, finally replaced my 9mm and decided I need to refill the cans.
So I went searching for bullets to fill the brass, and couldn't stop from jumping at a lot of pulled 124gr Gold Dots for the 'get it out of my basement' price.
I have a good stock of Red Dot that's been good to me with cast lead, but can't justify buying much else and however sure I was going to find something I can't find any info for Gold Dots and little enough for JHP in general to work up.
Yes, I should have checked first. So. Anyone have a good lead? Or second the thought that I should trade these out for their value in cast lead?
 
Great bullets, but to make them sing you need a more medium speed powder. Will Red Dot "work"? Sure, but maybe your idea to sell/trade them to get something else is a good idea, you could certainly get more of something else for the Gold Dots.
 
I would call Alliant. They can tell you. But I bet their answer is going to be somewhere around 3.5-4.0gr. Don’t hold me to it. Just an educated guess.
 
That's what I'm starting to think here. I'll see if I don't feel up to reloading more often and can get some Unique or Bullseye later, but until after Christmas my spending is limited.
I thought the price was too good for me right now, but once they come in I could trade them for double the lead, which I know a good load for.
 
Walkalong said:
Great bullets, but to make them sing you need a more medium speed powder. Will Red Dot "work"? Sure, but maybe your idea to sell/trade them to get something else is a good idea, you could certainly get more of something else for the Gold Dots.
Click to expand...
Like a pound of BlueDot which is awesome in 9mm?
 
Deus Machina said:
That's what I'm starting to think here. I'll see if I don't feel up to reloading more often and can get some Unique or Bullseye later, but until after Christmas my spending is limited.
I thought the price was too good for me right now, but once they come in I could trade them for double the lead, which I know a good load for.
Click to expand...
Are you just using them for plinking?
 
The lead, I will. I figured if I had Gold Dots and since I never shoot up my whole stock, I'd be glad to keep some of those around more than I would the cheap cast lead.
But for the price? Heck yeah, I'd be just as happy to have a can full of lead instead of a few boxes of Gold Dots.

Like a pound of BlueDot which is awesome in 9mm?
Click to expand...
That may be in the works, then. But I've also found that 125gr cast lead in front of 4.3gr of Red Dot is gentle, accurate in the guns I had at the time, and happily chugs right along. Maybe not IDPA loads, but a good time at the range.
 
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Deus Machina said:
And that's the site I'd been looking for and lost the reference to.
Welp. Guess I'll wait and see just what I get before flipping these.
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First I would try contacting Alliant like suggested above. If they have nothing for you, those GDHP bullets are very good SD bullets so if it were me I would pick up a pound of powder that will work well with them. Do you gave any other powders available?
 
I'll send an email off to Alliant sometime this weekend.
At current, the only thing useful I have is Red Dot. The local shops have either not kept anything in stock or still want near-panic prices.
 
If you were close by I would give you a more suitable powder. Good luck trading them for a larger number of lead bullets, or you could always put them back for a rainy day.

Other very fast powders are used with 124/5 Gr jacketed bullets, and I am sure a good safe load with Red Dot could be worked out, even if it isn't ideal.

124-gr Speer GDHP
Bullseye
CCI 500
Speer
1.120
4.4
1059

124-gr Speer GDHP
Amer. Select
CCI 500
Speer
1.120
5.0
1053
Click to expand...
This would be all I need to work up a load with Red Dot, although I understand the reluctance to do so without hard data, especially when they show hard data for these two good fast/fairly fast powders. And of course why waste those for light plinking loads.

I wonder if part of the issue for not showing RD is bulk.
 
4g Red Dot was about the highest charge I would go with a 124g bullet. I was only able to get about 1090 fps out of a 4.25" M&P9. That's fine for plinking but that would not be a really good Gold Dot load. The one good thing about that load was the SD (spread) was really low. That probably meant the pressures were pretty substantial. You should spring for a pound of BE-86. It will get you a little more top velocity than Unique, flows better than Unique or Red Dot, has a flash suppressant so it will be better in low light than Power Pistol which will get you a little faster but has a big flash.
5.6g BE-86 got me 1215 fps out of the same gun which still had a couple tenths margin below their published max.
 
Walkalong said:
If you were close by I would give you a more suitable powder. Good luck trading them for a larger number of lead bullets, or you could always put them back for a rainy day.

Other very fast powders are used with 124/5 Gr jacketed bullets, and I am sure a good safe load with Red Dot could be worked out, even if it isn't ideal.

This would be all I need to work up a load with Red Dot, although I understand the reluctance to do so without hard data, especially when they show hard data for these two good fast/fairly fast powders. And of course why waste those for light plinking loads.

I wonder if part of the issue for not showing RD is bulk.
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The bulk very well might be the issue. Another reason might be space on the data site. Sometimes they leave off less than ideal data even though they have it. I hope Alliant sends the OP some data.
 
I have a Lee number 2 loading manual that has red dot with a 125gr jacket bullet.
Min load 4.3 grs 1071 vel
Max load 4.6 grs 1145 vel
Hope this helps if you like red dot and you have some this load data looks like you should get a decent load. (Some fill that this load data is to hot so I would start below the min load to safe. Better safe then sorry.)
 

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Dwb1957 said:
I have a Lee number 2 loading manual that has red dot with a 125gr jacket bullet.
Min load 4.3 grs 1071 vel
Max load 4.6 grs 1145 vel
Hope this helps if you like red dot and you have some this load data looks like you should get a decent load.
Click to expand...
I'd tread lightly there; I'm pretty sure it's over SAAMI max chamber pressure by a good bit. Titegroup is popular in 9mm, 7 spots slower on the burn rate chart and shows 1,136fps at max of 4.4gr. on Hodgdon's site.

Although it's a bit of a WAG, Quickload makes 4.6gr. of Red Dot look easily capable of generating 40,000+ psi with a jacketed 125gr. bullet in 9mm. It would probably get you 1145fps at least but I don't think it's very safe at that level.
 
ray15 said:
I'd tread lightly there; I'm pretty sure it's over SAAMI max chamber pressure by a good bit. Titegroup is popular in 9mm, 7 spots slower on the burn rate chart and shows 1,136fps at max of 4.4gr. on Hodgdon's site.

Although it's a bit of a WAG, Quickload makes 4.6gr. of Red Dot look easily capable of generating 40,000+ psi with a jacketed 125gr. bullet in 9mm. It might get you 1145fps but I don't think it's very safe at that level.
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You may be right I will go back and edit my post but I was trying to give him some data from a loading manual.
 
Old Alliant Data - 96
125gr FMJ at 1.15 4.6gr (MAX) Red Dot 1145fps 33,000 PSI 4.0 Barrel
Edit - checked the Alliant Data manuals I have to 05, same load.
Don't have 06-08, RD not listed in 9mm in 09.

Don't have any Red Dot on hand but the charge of 4.6 might be getting to where the powder would be compressed.
RD will work, not the best but it will work. I would start about 4.0 gr and work up.
Don't know how many Gold Dots you have but it would probably be worth getting a slower powder if you want to use them for SD.
CFE-P or BE86 would be good choices.
Expensive just to order a lb but you can order some if none is available at your LGS.
You could probably get a lb of what ever you want delivered for $50. ($20ish for the powder, $25-30 for hazmat and shipping)
If you were ordering primers or more powder the hit for hazmat and shipping wouldn't be as painful.

If you just want to shoot them for practice RD should be ok.
However if you just want bullets for practice you might consider trading them.
I don't know what the exchange rate for "Gold" Dots is but I would be willing to bet you could trade and end up with more bullets for practice ammo if that's what your after.
 
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Dwb1957 said:
You may be right I will go back and edit my post but I was trying to give him some data from a loading manual.
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I understand, and it may be valid data. Dudedog clarified it was published by Alliant in 1996, but of course a lot of the load data from that era is pretty stout by today's standards.

I haven't worked with Red Dot, so I well could be wrong. But based on the stuff I have worked with I think Dudedog's recommendation of starting around 4gr. is a good idea. I can't help but feel that if you really could get 1.145fps with a 125 grainer at 33,000psi Red Dot would be a lot more popular in 9mm. rsrocket1's post on his testing above shows 4.0gr./1090fps is a lot more realistic maximum.
 
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ray15 said:
But based on the stuff I have worked with I think Dudedog's recommendation of starting around 4gr. is a good idea
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Agreed, and work up very slowly.

But again, I would save those premium bullets, or wait to get a better powder, or trade them.
 
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