9x18 Mak vs 9 Luger or 38 Spcl for winter carry - Ballistics gel tests

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Turftech1

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Hi all,

We compared 3 common "lite" defensive rounds for winter use, by firing them into ballistics gelatin through a heavy winter coat.

I thought some of you might like to see the results. Is 9x18 suitable for carry?

I think most shocking was the failure of the .38 spcl Hornady bullet to expand. I have carried that load, but not anymore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuRkZg2fdLs
 
Thanks for the test. I have wondered about that .38 Hornady load. They need to put some extra velocity behind that one. It could be an exceptional choice with more fps at +p velocities.
 
AZAndy said:
I'm always happy to see tests of 9x18. Thanks so much for doing that!
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My FEG PA-63 is one of my more common CC guns, so I was curious to see how the 9x18 performed. I was very pleased.

In this test, it was shot from a CZ-82.
 
SeanSw said:
Thanks for the test. I have wondered about that .38 Hornady load. They need to put some extra velocity behind that one. It could be an exceptional choice with more fps at +p velocities.
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I have used that exact round in my .38 snubby for a self defense/CC round... not anymore.
 
What were the firearms used in this test?

The same .38 round is tested here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5pWEU8qX7g

It seems "okay" from a snubbie with standard pressure ammo, at least regarding penetration. This ammo shoots very well from my guns but it simply doesn't have enough heat to satisfy me. It's also expensive for what it is. A buck a round where I can find it locally.
 
XTP's are famous for not expanding at low 38spl/45acp speeds, and even in 147 gr 9mm speeds. They need a lot of juice to get them to expand.
 
Sorry...

The 9 x 18 is a blowback pistol round that "splits the difference" between the 9mm Parabellum and the 9 x 17 Automatic Pistol Cartridge (.380 ACP).

The Russians 'cheaped out" by creating this round. It is designed to shoot FMJ bullet, much as is the .380 ACP (9 x 17mm). This is the only round I would feel safe using in this pistol for personal defense. You can't "make a silk purse from a Sow's ear". It just isn't in the cards. The minimum autoloading cartridge I would try to get hollow points to penetrate and expand effectively is the 9mm Parabellum. Period.

That is life and physics.
 
SeanSw said:
What were the firearms used in this test?

The same .38 round is tested here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5pWEU8qX7g

It seems "okay" from a snubbie with standard pressure ammo, at least regarding penetration. This ammo shoots very well from my guns but it simply doesn't have enough heat to satisfy me. It's also expensive for what it is. A buck a round where I can find it locally.
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His results were much better than mine. Not sure why. The .38 used was a S&W snubbie. Very similar to his revolver. We fired a second round after the first completely failed to expand, and there was some improvement with the second bullet, but it still was not impressive.

I will try it again, and maybe try a different brand to compare. Perhaps at less than 800 fps, they just don't consistently open up.
 
Captain O said:
The 9 x 18 is a blowback pistol round that "splits the difference" between the 9mm Parabellum and the 9 x 17 Automatic Pistol Cartridge (.380 ACP).

The Russians 'cheaped out" by creating this round. It is designed to shoot FMJ bullet, much as is the .380 ACP (9 x 17mm). This is the only round I would feel safe using in this pistol for personal defense. You can't "make a silk purse from a Sow's ear". It just isn't in the cards. The minimum autoloading cartridge I would try to get hollow points to penetrate and expand effectively is the 9mm Parabellum. Period.

That is life and physics.
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Comparing the wound channel of the 9x18 Hornady bullet, and the .38 Hornady bullet, I would take the 9x18. It didn't go as deep, but it expanded much better, and did much more damage. In fact, I kind of wish I hadn't edited out where I cut out the 9x19 channel, when you compare it with the Mak, it is almost identical, just 2" deeper.
 
Your test is biased. Conduct the same test using Critical Defense for all calibers. Expanding after penetrating heavy clothing is what Critical Defense bullets were designed for. The other two were convential hollowpoints. Do your tests again with all calibers using the same type of bullet.

Your test did show the 9x18 performs about like a 9x17 as someone else said.
 
A wise old attorney for the Albuquerque Coroner's Office one said:

"Shot placement is king, penetration is queen. Everthing else is 'angels is dancing on the heads of pins'".

That's all I have to say about that.
 
If expansion's what you're going for, Speer Gold Dots are usually the best. As for the Hornady 9x18, I will state that the red-tip version (Hornady makes 2 9x18 rounds) will NOT feed properly in either mine or my father's P-64's. I have not tested the other version.

It's good to see, though, that 9x18 Makarov performs very well for its size. It's a good round, and the guns that chamber it tend to be good quality.

Edit: apparently PPU is now producing a 9x18 hollowpoint, and it's in stock on Cabela's website. I just ordered 2 boxes to replace the aging Silver Bear JHP's currently in my P-64. While the Silver Bear performs well in tests, the hollowpoint version is no longer imported, sadly.
 
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WardenWolf said:
If expansion's what you're going for, Speer Gold Dots are usually the best. As for the Hornady 9x18, I will state that the red-tip version (Hornady makes 2 9x18 rounds) will NOT feed properly in either mine or my father's P-64's. I have not tested the other version.

It's good to see, though, that 9x18 Makarov performs very well for its size. It's a good round, and the guns that chamber it tend to be good quality.

Edit: apparently PPU is now producing a 9x18 hollowpoint, and it's in stock on Cabela's website. I just ordered 2 boxes to replace the aging Silver Bear JHP's currently in my P-64. While the Silver Bear performs well in tests, the hollowpoint version is no longer imported, sadly.
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I'll have to try the PPU. Both my CZ-82 and the FEG PA-63 will eat the Hornady Critical defense all day long. Interesting that the P-64 doesn't like it.
 
Please try it, along with the Buffalo Bore offering. I want to know how they perform.

My Bulgarian Mak ate the Critical Defense just fine, as expected. I've heard that some P-64 pistols will eat it, but our hand selected ones won't. I used to live in Arizona and we took a trip to J&G Sales in Prescott and picked them out in person. When it jams, it strips it off the mag just fine but it doesn't slide under the extractor and the slide ends up out of battery with the rim in front of the extractor.
 
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I load 93-100gr fmj or cast in 380 acp and 9x18 mak. About 16" of penetration in gel is a sure thing, hollow point performance is questionable for these cartridges.
 
Love the 9mm Maks.

I kind of want to pick up a Bulgy Mak, seeing as they are cheap and available from the seller these days. I like the DA/SA mechanism. I had a Bersa Thunder not long back, but boy that thing was a piece of junk. I need some real military steel to replace that pot metal joke.
 
The first weapon I carried consistently was a Bulgarian Makarov, and have enjoyed it both at the range and on my hip. I now carry a Sig P-938, and have come to prefer it as a carry weapon for the weight & configuration. That being said, my Mak still has a prominent place in my inventory.
 
I carry the hornady 110 grain standard .38 critical defense, (not exactly what you tested but in same league I guess) in my daily lcr carry. The round is very reliable and hits like a laser out of the gun. Reliability, accuracy, then ballistics for me. I've see videos showing it doing well out of snubbies. No testing of my own but I think it would do. No changes planned
 
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This is why I can't justify the use of hollow point ammunition in this caliber. Period. Ball ammunition for the 9 x 18 and lighter 9 x 17, .32 ACP, .32 S&W Long, .32 S&W, .25 ACP, .22 lr (in handguns with barrels under 6") .22 WMRF (again, with barrels under 6"). The .32 H&R Magnum may have sufficient speed in 4+ inches of barrel and the .327 Federal Magnum has enough speed to "make the trip".

I would not exchange expansion for penetration in any caliber lighter than the 9mm Luger.

My criteria is as follows:

a) Shot placement is king,

b) penetration is queen.

c) Everything else is 'angels dancing on the heads of pins'.
 
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