A handy rifle for when camping in bear country

[chaim]

I occasionally go camping in Western MD and Western PA. No big brown bear or anything, but it is black bear country (not sure if there are still mountain lions or not, I think the last of them have been killed off in this part of the country about 100 yrs ago, but I'm not sure).

Anyway, I consider the revolver to be the main gun defense against a bear attack since usually bear attacks happen fast enough that by the time you know you are under attack you won't have time to get to the rifle until it is too late. However, since revolver calibers aren't really sufficient to stop a bear attack without a healthy dose of luck, I'd like a small, handy rifle on hand just in case (maybe someone else can grab it and come to the attacked person's aid).

It has to be small and handy so it can come into play quickly. It has to be very PC since MD isn't a gun friendly state and even having the rifle in the tent may not quite be legal. Given both requirements, and because I am a big lever rifle fan, I'm leaning towards a lever rifle.

So, this is largely a caliber question, and a recoil question.

I don't want too much recoil since in this situation quick follow up shots are important and I want to be able to practice with it enough to be competent with the gun. About the maximum recoil I can reasonably handle is .30-06 out of a bolt gun and 12ga shotgun recoil out of a pump (and I'm not particularly fond of either beyond 10-20 rounds) so I'd prefer something that is a tad less than that and certainly not more. However, I want more than just barely enough for an average sized black bear.

Here are my thoughts as of now-

-Stay with my 30-30. It is a rifle round, and though it is a fairly light rifle round and "only" 30cal, we are only talking black bear here. It should be sufficient against a black bear, I am very familiar with my Winchester 94, and it is pretty easy on the shoulder and wallet.

-Go with a .44mag or .357mag. While not really "enough" and just minimum out of a handgun, they may be better out of a long gun (they do gain velocity and maybe they gain enough to be enough for a black bear). If I go this way I'd probably go .44mag.

-Go with .454 or .480Ruger. While technically these are revolver rounds, they give near rifle performance out of a revolver so out of a rifle they should be great at short range (30-30ish energy levels and a bigger hole). I assume since they are widely used in handguns the recoil should be reasonable in a rifle (30-30 level maybe).

-I'm also considering the big boys (.444, .450Marlin, 45-70) but I'm not sure about the recoil. All of these should be quite good if needed against a bear (well, nothing is a sure thing against bear, but these are as close as it comes). However, with my recoil and price requirements (how good are they for me if I can't practice) I'm not sure. How do these compare out of a light lever-rifle with 30-06 out of a Savage 110 or 12ga buck out of a Benelli Nova? How do the three compare with each other? Is .444 or .450 easier on the shoulder than 45-70? I could always get reloading dies for one of these calibers to control the price if needed.

-While it misses my criteria on being a lever rifle it is relatively PC so I am also considering a wood stocked Remington 7400 in 18.5" or 20" barrelled carbine form (maybe a BAR if it is made in less than a 20" barrel, though it would likely be out of my price range). I'd probably go .308, but I'd also consider this in .243 and 30-06. How would .243 work against an attacking bear? I'm sure either 30-06 or .308 would be good. One advantage this way is that, while a lever-rifle can be fired about as fast as a semi at range conditions, under high stress (which a bear attack certainly would be) the semi might be a bit faster and if one arm became injured repeat shots could be done one handed.

 

[chaim]

Oh, as for my leanings-

-While I might be ok with my current 30-30 Winchester 94 or hotloading my .45LC Winchester 94, I'm not sure I want to go this way. If nothing else, it is a good excuse to be looking for another gun. Assuming nothing unexpected comes up between now and when my tax return comes, I may need something to spend it on

-I'm leaning against the big boys (.444, .450 or 45-70). My recoil tolerance probably isn't high enough for these. Even if I'd be fine with a good recoil pad, I'm also worried about the 4 round mags you have with these calibers- I think I'd rather have a couple more rounds of a slightly lesser caliber. However, I'm not decided on this issue.

-I'm leaning towards a powerful handgun round that should be enough against bear, give me several rounds in the mag, and also let me practice more (I get to indoor pistol ranges that limit rifles to pistol calibers much more than I get to the outdoor rifle ranges). I'm thinking strongly about a Rossi/Puma in .454 or a Winchester 94 in .480Ruger (I'd also happily consider the Marlin as well if they make a model in .480).

-I've only just started thinking about the Remington 7400 for this so my thoughts on that aren't so well thought out yet. Still, while I'm good with a lever action, I'm starting to think that if the one being attacked can get to the rifle, having one that can be operated even with an injured arm may be a good consideration. I can operate my Winchesters one handed, but it may not be easy enough to do while under stress and under the andreneline dump one would experience if being mauled by a bear and injured. Then again, there is the 4 round limitation again (and operating a gun one handed is what the revolver is for).

 

[jem375]

man, you're making a mountain out of a molehill, carry the 30-30 it's plenty for black bear or anything else in your neck of the woods...or a shotgun...

 

[thatguy]

The odds of a black bear attack are extremely remote. Much more likely to be attacked by human criminals. Feel any better?

I like a 20" side by side 12 ga in the woods. Very light and handy. I carry 6 rounds of 3" 00 buck and 6 3" slugs and feel ready for anything.

If 2 fast shots don't comfort you, there's the short 12 ga pump.

If you want a rifle I have a Winchester Model 94 Trapper (16") in .44 magnum. Very handy, holds 10 rounds, and 240 JHPs clock 1980 FPS from it. Recoil from this caliber is a pussycat in a carbine.

I still favor a handgun for defensive carry. Even a light rifle or shotgun gets heavy quickly. If the neighborhood is anti gun it won't matter what gun you carry, they won't like it. I'd get a good .357 with a 4" barrel and conceal it while walking in the woods. Full-power 158s should do the job if needed. Remember that famous photo of Robert Peterson sitting atop a huge polar bear he dropped with a .357 Model 27 S&W?

 

[larryw]

I agree with thatguy's assessment, but WOW, 1980fps with a 240gr load from a from a 16 levergun?!!?? Which one? I ask because my 20" lever gun in 44 Mag with "just a tad over max" reloads chrony at only 1750fps.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

Thudy-thudy sounds good. Or .44 mag carbine. Either of them in a 16" levergun sounds like the ticket.

A backup DA revolver in .357 mag or matching .44 mag might also be handy.

 

[JohnKSa]

However, since revolver calibers aren't really sufficient to stop a bear attack without a healthy dose of luck

IMO this statement is no longer true, if it ever was. It's rare to find someone that says a 45/70 rifle is insufficient for bear attacks, and I can think of maybe 5 or 6 handgun calibers that approach or exceed standard pressure 45/70 performance.

 

[roscoe]

chaim,

Isn't MD a rifle-carry state? That was my understanding, so you may be OK with carrying a rifle with you. I'm no lawyer, so you might want to check first.

 

[Bear Gulch]

30-30 would do fine with 170 grainers.

 

[Soap]

I grew up in Western PA. The chances of seeing a black bear are very small. The chances of you being attacked by a black bear are slim to none. Your chances of even seeing a mountain lion are less than slim to none. Regardless, if you're really that worried about it, carry the 30-30.

Have you ever even seen a black bear in the wild? They're not as terrifying as all these bear threads on THR make them out to be. If you take proper woodsman's precautions, the black bears and THR members can coexist. I don't understand why is everybody so terrified about black bears?

If you want to get a new rifle and you're trying to justify the purchase, just say to yourself, "This is America, this is my money, I can purchase what I want without any reason."

I can see Marty Stouffer laughing his butt off right now...

 

[Bwana John]

short 12 ga pump

Yep.

 

[Preacherman]

The only way I'd consider a shotgun for defence against large animals like bears is with a load of Rottweil Brenneke slugs. These are much harder than US Foster-style slugs, and will penetrate very well (which the Fosters won't do). Buckshot is effectively useless against such large animals, as it won't penetrate very deeply.

I'd rather go with your .30-30 (using 170gr. loads) or a .44 Magnum rifle loaded with Federal 300gr. CastCore bullets. Out of a 20" rifle barrel, the .44 Magnum approaches the .30-30's energy levels, and the CastCore load is renowned for deep penetration and bone-breaking ability.

 

[MrMurphy]

Winchester 1300 Camp Defender. 21" barrel, about 8 shots. People problem possible? Load with buck.

Bear possible? Use slugs. It looks PC too (pump shotgun).

 

[mete]

First what are the regulations about carrying a rifle when not big game season ? Black bear weight can be high in PA,the last two years hunters took bears topping 800 lbs !! BUT the chances of meeting a bad one are extremely small. Saw another one recently in NE PA very close range [15'] and he ignored me ,just like every one I,ve met close. For guns my choices would be big bore 44mag, 444,45-70 or 12 ga....There seem to be two reactions from most people who haven't met bears. Some want to pet, hug and feed it and some panic and think it's attacking even when it's far away !!!...Don't feed them and don't get between mom and cubs. If you're nervous about them chase them away with compressed air foghorn , loud whistles or other noise....Game officials take a dim view of people who shoot bear out of season. PA has 3000 black bear.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The greatest danger in bear country is leaving food where a bear can get it. If you're backpacking, hang you pack from a slender limb, high enough so a bear can't get it, and far enough from the trunk so a bear can't climb up and snag it.

If car camping, lock the food up. And keep a CLEAN campsite.

A black bear is about as hard to kill as a deer -- a .357, .44 or .45 Colt will do the job.

 

[Jaeger]

One of my all time favorite rifles is my Marlin 1895G Guide Gun in 45-70. It's light, handy and very accurate. (1 moa is the norm) I can't recommend that rifle highly enough. Even with standard pressure factory ammo you'll have more than enough power for bear and very managable recoil. If you decide to develop some shoulder bruising "grizzley" loads later on, the rifle is more than up to the task.
Your 30-30 would be more than adaquate but I think you need an excuse for a new rifle! You'll probably never need a bear protection gun here in PA but that does't mean you shouldn't get one! You'll be hard pressed to find a better caliber than the 45-70, especially if you handload.

 

[pete f]

I have a 94 trapper in 44 mag. but if i was going looking for a new one for this purpose i would look at a marlin 36 A ( the rifle ) in 35 remington, then have the barrel cut down to trapper length. loaded with 200 grain softpoints it would be a nice stout bear gun in an extremely affordable and handy package.
If you hand load, the Marlin can be loaded some of 250 grain barnes originals which are stout, and yes you will never need this for bear while camping but it is cool and will be a fun gun to play with, I had a 36A for a while that i would load with 125 JHP meant for the 357 and it was a hoot to shoot melons and bad pumpkins on the farm with, massively explosive. hehee good on feral cats too. I also loaded some hbwc with a very low dose of powder and had some poper loads.